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Header Thread * Which Makes Most HP per $$? Best Bang
- Thread starter NSX1145
- Start date
3-8 HP increase for $1400!??!??!!
:tongue:
NA2 headers will suffice for those numbers.
:tongue:
NA2 headers will suffice for those numbers.
Brilliant thread NSX1145,
Surely this is the most important thread on prime for those interested in improving the performance of their motors. After all HEADERS are the weak link in the power chain, specially on the NA1's. Whether your interested in NA or FI which Headers to fit seems to be the first decision we all have to make.
Maybe it's because a lot of owners fitted their headers years ago but I am staggered there is not more detailed information and comparisons shared on this subject.
Questions answered like:
TYSAMA.
Surely this is the most important thread on prime for those interested in improving the performance of their motors. After all HEADERS are the weak link in the power chain, specially on the NA1's. Whether your interested in NA or FI which Headers to fit seems to be the first decision we all have to make.
Maybe it's because a lot of owners fitted their headers years ago but I am staggered there is not more detailed information and comparisons shared on this subject.
Questions answered like:
- Which header makes the most power?
- Which header & exhaust combination makes the most power?
- Which H & E makes the most power and is also liveable on the road? (No drone)
- Will a free flowing FI header and exhaust system also work on an NA motor or do we need a system specific for each set up?
TYSAMA.
Like i said before it's impossible to accurately predict the gains on a given car.
In the NA section there is a lengthy detailed explanation by me and others on the subject on how dyno comparison work and the underlying facts.
To cut a long story short,
You can't just compare header between different cars and dyno runs, nether can you stack performance figures up with out calculating the full performance system and modification variables.
In answer to your FI vs NA header question, there are very few FI specific (supercharger) headers on the market I think it's only two or three.
Those won't be optimal on a regular NA car as they are designed for more gas flow due to the forced induction.
Next to the simple fact that any accurate comparison is hard and time consuming to make, we should actually be comparing the mathematical proprieties and design characteristic.
Also are you looking for torque or high revving HP, it's after all the torque you will notice most in daily driving.
This is great info...how accurate is that 3/4" measurement for 95 application.. Would I be safe to modify prior to starting the install or would I have to test fit?
I would like to have them ceramic coated and would prefer not to have the down time.
I would like to have them ceramic coated and would prefer not to have the down time.
Since you have a 2000 you can cross the Top Speed off the list. Even though they claim their NA2 headers are for 97-2005, they are actually 97-99. The rear bank is 3/4" too long.
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Thanks A.S.MOTORSPORT,
I am fully aware of the difficulty to find accurate information. However any/all feedback from owners who have actually fitted Headers etc. is worthwhile. Filtering through this feedback will help any perspective purchasers make a better decision. What is the alternative, manufactures make any claim they like without the consumer keeping them honest? I know it's true, but if we keep using the old "dyno's aren't accurate" chestnut then no one can share any of their experiences.
This forum has any number of threads discussing the sound differences between systems but this thread seems to be aimed at members who care about what performance gains different Headers will return.
Thanks for confirming there is a difference between what is required on NA compared to FI headers.
Both torque & HP -- although torque is more important to me.
I'll be cheeky and ask you which header, with your experience, would you fit to your own NA car? (Accompanied by all the normal bolt on NA stuff only)
Cheers, TYSAMA.
SoS, Taitec, Fujitsubo, Lovefab and RF Yamamoto (sold as GT-One) all will show gains on NA2, but not much. The factory design is very good.
I think the best bang for the buck headers other than the Factory NA2 (which I have on my car) are the CT Engineering. Fitment is perfect every time, which is a big deal and can save you lots in labor cost. Also, these headers are race-proven and durable. If I did not have OEM, I would go with CT. I just don't think it it is worth it to pay 1 or 2 thousand more $$ for 5 more hp.
Anybody runs Cantrell headers?
I had Cantrell before going Fi. I was happy with them
Awesome! I look forward to your dyno results with your stock NSX. I'm putting on the Pride headers this weekend and then hopefully have some time to dyno the car as welll to see what I'm sitting at.
NSX 1145: Thanks for this great thread. You may not remember but, I visited your shop a few months ago. You have an awesome shop and a lot of great products for our cars. Anyway, I was considering headers for my 02 Imola. After reading this thread it looks like the gain in HP on an NA2 is so minor that $1,500 for headers would be wasted money. I'm glad I read this before I pulled that trigger. I am looking into installing the SOS large throttle body so I guess I need to look up those threads as well. ----- Ed
Some more detail picture on the KSP headers.
KSP do make one of the best mergers/collectors on NSX headers, there are only Two other in Japan that I've seen producing such a smooth long merger.
Other improvements in the exhaust lines are change the system configuration as nearly all NSX exhaust systems run a 6-2-2 with ether a H or X pipe in connecting the two banks.
Then you have the total pipe length differences in the mufflers, TaiTec JGTC, FN09 and RFY V1 give long runner lengths, whilst others (extreme example would be a Arm's center exit) run much shorter total pipe length.
This effects torque curve.
Also a full KSP exhaust system is a 6-2-1 which runs a dual exit muffler after joining the banks for about 2 feet.
There are also more extreme layouts which run additional loops to give a very long 6-2-1 layout.
We will be posting these up in the vendor section probably next week or so I'm first going to discusses some details with the manufacturer.
these designs together with the KSP style layout go further than regular NSX exhausts.
Here is a full KSP 6-2-1 installed:
KSP do make one of the best mergers/collectors on NSX headers, there are only Two other in Japan that I've seen producing such a smooth long merger.
Other improvements in the exhaust lines are change the system configuration as nearly all NSX exhaust systems run a 6-2-2 with ether a H or X pipe in connecting the two banks.
Then you have the total pipe length differences in the mufflers, TaiTec JGTC, FN09 and RFY V1 give long runner lengths, whilst others (extreme example would be a Arm's center exit) run much shorter total pipe length.
This effects torque curve.
Also a full KSP exhaust system is a 6-2-1 which runs a dual exit muffler after joining the banks for about 2 feet.
There are also more extreme layouts which run additional loops to give a very long 6-2-1 layout.
We will be posting these up in the vendor section probably next week or so I'm first going to discusses some details with the manufacturer.
these designs together with the KSP style layout go further than regular NSX exhausts.
Here is a full KSP 6-2-1 installed:
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They look restrictive compared to the ones I have with the widest collectors for ANY NSX headers in the world.
2.5" thick
2.5" thick
They largest collector doesn't always yield the best performance, high velocity systems can run just as good and often make more usable power.
What is the advantage of 6-2-1 over 6-2-2?
They look restrictive compared to the ones I have with the widest collectors for ANY NSX headers in the world.
2.5" thick
If the collectors are too wide, don't you start to lose abit of torque due to insufficient back pressure? Apparently the RFY headers were designed and re-designed 5 times. The merger angle was tried and tested with 14 degrees seemingly the optimum angle for superior torque? The KSP and RFY Headers seem to be exceptional quality, but you get what you pay for.
Also i fail to see how these headers would not make a difference on an NA2? The design to the stock NA2 is completely different with much longer bends and tubing? The standard NA2 headers are still rather restrictive in design.
For Superchargers, namely positively displacement blowers like the SOS SC the widest collectors makes the most sense to me.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NekTRPx68zs?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The KSY are not that impressive considering what the domestics have access too.
When it comes to blowers and exhaust the Domestic folks are light years ahead of the imports...
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NekTRPx68zs?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The KSY are not that impressive considering what the domestics have access too.
When it comes to blowers and exhaust the Domestic folks are light years ahead of the imports...
A charger is indeed a very different story,
Exhaust gas wise your increasing displacement of the engine necessitating larger piping.
NA is a different story.
Exhaust gas wise your increasing displacement of the engine necessitating larger piping.
NA is a different story.
^
Agreed. If anyone wants to look at good collector designs take a look at the headers from Formula one. They have built the highest hp/liter naturally aspirated engines in existence. Definitely not what you see in the domestic world.
+1
Very helpful info... just bought the DC headers from Mark at Dali - he says it should fit just fine...hope he's right!
Very helpful info... just bought the DC headers from Mark at Dali - he says it should fit just fine...hope he's right!
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