I think Ethanol in my fuel broke my NSX...

[Mpire]

So when I pull the drain plug on the tank I got black crap floating around in the fuel that comes out.

The fuel filter was clogged to hell, I changed it and drained the tank and it ran like a supercar for 2 weeks until it all started over again.

Rumors persist that people are testing the pump gas and finding that they are getting up to 30% ethanol at times. 30%!!!!!!!!!!

So now I am hunting for Straight Gasoline in Florida, and its damned near impossible to find. Will have to go to race gas or something to avoid the Ethanol.

Anyone had similar experiences? Could my fuel tank be eating itself from the inside out? What else do you think the Ethanol is destroying?

Need ideas, I can't drive the car!

 

[EdinKali]

If I recall correctly, ethanol can destroy hoses and o-rings.

 

[Aircooled]

If I recall correctly, ethanol can destroy hoses and o-rings.

Ethanol can most certainly eat up and destroy your fuel system components. Too much of it in a car not tuned for it will also lead to lean conditions which could destroy your engine. Just because you found black stuff floating around, doesn't mean it's eating your fuel hoses or o-rings. I still would be suspect of the damage it could be causing to rubber parts it's contacting, but on the flip side of things, too high of ethanol will also start cleaning your fuel system very thoroughly. You figure you have an 18 year old car, over the years of having nothing but spotty and at times, poorly filtered fuels and possibly dirt and such falling into your tank from wherever when you go to fill up, there's probably a lot of crap in there. The Ethanol can start to lift it and send it through your fuel system which could be why your fuel filter is getting clogged if you've changed it recently.

Although I hate to say (my NSX knowledge is limited) if you have an in-tank fuel pump, even if it's not causing direct damage to the pump, the dirt and debris probably is. At this point I would be concerned that your fuel pump strainer (aka sock) is starting to become clogged as well, which you will have to remove the fuel pump to change. This is a semi-complicated problem and I'm not going to post the whole solution to it because I hate to say, if you can't figure it out, you shouldn't be doing it. I will tell you though, if you want the easy way out, swap a new fuel tank, it's expensive but it's also a clean tank.

If anybody has something to add or feels I'm leading on in the wrong direction, please, by all means feel free to speak up.

Edit: After 6 edits, I'm done. If something doesn't make sense, just tell me and I'll clarify or elaborate.

 

[JWillis]

That is correct. If your fuel system is not setup for ethanol, it will eat your stock rubber lines, plastic lines, and in worst cases, eat the lining of your gas tank. Usually when you run ethanol, you would need SS braided lines along with a stronger fuel pump/pumps with larger injectors and have the duty cycle tuned. Check your spark plugs because at times ethanol will foul the plugs quicker. I run E-85 in my supra and there was one incident where the ethanol deteriorated a plastic line in the fuel pump hanger as well as the rubber sleeve that holds my fuel pumps together.

 

[curtsr]

Ethanol... up.

Nice post noob, welcome aboard!

 

[shawn110975]

I have heard of Ethanol eating the fiberglass Gas tanks of Older Boats/marine application, it breaks down the fiberglass and makes a black sludge,, then your Boat etc. sucks that up and tries to burn it,, Yikes it wont,, its hard to say,, but there isnt a way to check if you local gas station is topping off their tanks with this sh_t, to make a buck,, I wish you could click a web site and it will show you which gas station have the least % of Ethanol, I want PURE 93octane I would even pay extra for it at the pump,,, I only use 93 like ALL NSX owners but who knows what we are really getting!!

Off topic,,, all over the news is this Earthquake in Haiti,, so the Sheep of America are looking at that,,, not one news report on how this Health care thing is going? are they gonna just pass it in the back-ground while are attention is elsewhere? and these refugee's pouring into America,, where are they gonna stay? are they now Americans? and what happend to the 50 Billion America has given them in the past 10 years,, the place still looks like it did before the Quake, Not good!!

 

[1oldpoop]

There IS a way to see if there is ethanol in the gas, and what the percentage is. Been having to fight this for years, ethanol is bad news in all airplane engines, especially Rotax 2 stroke aircraft engines running premix. And especially if your homebuilt has a composite fuel tank. Guess how I know this? Sigh...

Here's how to do it: get a tall skinny glass bottle or test tube, make a mark at the 10% level. Put water in it up to the 10% mark, and then fill it up with the pump gas to the 100% level. You should be able to see the separation line at the mark. Put your thumb on the top of the tube, or put the cap on, shake it up. Wait a couple minutes, let the bubbles settle out. If there is ethanol in the gas, the apparent water level will now be above your lower mark, and the greater the distance from your mark to the separation boundary, the higher the percentage of ethanol.

As far as learning which stations in your area have ethanol free gas - find your local Experimental Aircraft Association chapter and ask them. Most small aircraft engines work fine on 87 octane pump gas, none of them work well on ethanol, and those guys keep track of who sells pure gas and who doesn't.

 

[nsxotic911]

There is another way to fight the ethanol garbage and that is to call your local politician and tell them to grow common sense and take away the crack pipe.

Ethanol, like so many government 'intervention/helper' programs, is not just a complete failure with upto catastrophic impact on cars, but goes back-@$$ wards.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html

 

[Tony Montoya]

The gas stations here have to sell a percentage of ethanol but only Shell sells a gas with no ethanol in it. I think it's called V-Tech, it used to be called gold. The regular gas gets all the ethanol and that way Shell meets the standards, it's similiar to CAFE. Esso Supreme contains ethanol or at least the sign on the pump doesn't say it contains "no ethanol".

 

[OLDMNSX]

If the gas station is selling gas with ethanol, at least in the US, they have to put a label on the pump somewhere. Sometimes you have to look real close because the label may be real small.
Brad

 

[warrenw]

Here in Canada, Husky and Mohawk stations sell up to 10% Ethanol. They offer a higher octain level using ethanol. Some provinces have different laws around percentages, so they accomodate each provincal laws.

They try to address the possible issues with ethanol blended gas.

They actually mention that mileage will be lower using thier ethanol blended fuel.

have a read...
http://www.myhusky.ca/you/fuel/ethanol_blended_fuel/ethanol_faqs.html#q4

 

[Briank]

IMO, your problems are not related to Ethanol, the fuel tank is metal so the black is not from that. Either you picked up a slug of snot from bad pump or someone stuck a piece of black foam rubber in your tank that the gas melted.

 

[nigel]

There's a BP station 1000 ft. from my front door that sell all its fuels with NO ethanol.
Besides my job that's at least one thing good about moving from S/W Florida to N/E Mississippi.

Cheers
nigel

 

[nsxtasy]

Pump gas includes up to 10 percent ethanol as required by federal law (EPA regulation) in many parts of the United States where air pollution is a problem.

You can use gas containing up to 10 percent ethanol in an NSX without any problems. Many of us have been doing so for many years.

I agree with Briank. Your problem has some other cause that has nothing to do with pump gas containing up to 10 percent ethanol.

 

[Mpire]

Well, I found some hobby gas. Its ethanol free, but they won't let you put it in your car. Containers are ok. 93 octaine.

So after draining the tank and using the new fuel, things are running better. Doesn't feel as strong as before, but its moving now.

So change the filter, and should I change the fuel pump? Think that it died or is being eaten alive by the ethanol? The car is a 1992 with about 55k miles.

 

[nsxtasy]

Think that it died or is being eaten alive by the ethanol?

Unless you used pure ethanol or E-85, no. I do not think that any problems would be caused by using conventional pump gas containing up to 10 percent ethanol as sold in much of the United States.

 

[Briank]

So change the filter, and should I change the fuel pump? Think that it died or is being eaten alive by the ethanol? The car is a 1992 with about 55k miles.

If your fuel pump is dead your car will not run. When you hear hooves think horses not zebras. I don't know what kind of crap got in your tank but it’s very very unlikely your problems have anything to do with ethanol.