NSX Concept at NY Auto Show - Pics

[Nero Tenebre]

I will keep bitching about it being ugly, all wheel drive, a hybrid, and not worthy of the NSX name no matter how fast or quick or new it may be. What we all want is a mp4-12c for half the price wrapped in the security blanket that is Honda. I would settle for less performance as long as it is faster than a GT-R, meaning the next generation which will be out when this is.

 

[WingZ]

Eh most referred to the original NSX being bland/ugly when it was first introduced so that's par for the course. Then they b*tched that it wasn't worthy of being a supercar or an exotic.

NSX just can't escape it's own history. People either love or hate it and few respect it. Doesn't matter how much ground the new or old one breaks. I honestly don't want it to be an MP4 as in person it's so cheaply done it should be half it's own sticker to start. Poor body panels and fit quality. I haven't seen it win a comparison test yet and unlike the NSX vs the Ferrari of it's day the MP4 is panned against the 458 vs the NSX disgracing the 348. Pretty sure they can't be what we all want.

While it's doubtful Honda will catch Ferrari sleeping Honda has a fair chance of being better than the MP4 for half the price. Plus everyone forgets the NSX beat it's early rivals W/O being more powerful than them.

 

[2slow2speed]

Eh most referred to the original NSX being bland/ugly when it was first introduced so that's par for the course. Then they b*tched that it wasn't worthy of being a supercar or an exotic.

NSX just can't escape it's own history. People either love or hate it and few respect it. Doesn't matter how much ground the new or old one breaks. I honestly don't want it to be an MP4 as in person it's so cheaply done it should be half it's own sticker to start. Poor body panels and fit quality. I haven't seen it win a comparison test yet and unlike the NSX vs the Ferrari of it's day the MP4 is panned against the 458 vs the NSX disgracing the 348. Pretty sure they can't be what we all want.

While it's doubtful Honda will catch Ferrari sleeping Honda has a fair chance of being better than the MP4 for half the price. Plus everyone forgets the NSX beat it's early rivals W/O being more powerful than them.

With all due respect the MP4-12C has won comparison tests, it is a bit more track focused than the F458. I do agree about the fit and finish of the body panels (noticed the same on the demo cars that I saw at the dealership) but the performance of the car relative to the F458 is there.

In regards to performance the NSX 2.0 has zero chance of beating a MP4-12C given the performance numbers out of the box for the current version of the MP4-12C.

Unlike the original NSX I seriously doubt that the NSX 2.0 will have the same long term appeal given the complexity of it's design. All that hybrid technology will make the car very hard to modify for the enthusiasts unlike the relatively simple design of the original.

 

[WingZ]

With all due respect the MP4-12C has won comparison tests, it is a bit more track focused than the F458. I do agree about the fit and finish of the body panels (noticed the same on the demo cars that I saw at the dealership) but the performance of the car relative to the F458 is there.

In regards to performance the NSX 2.0 has zero chance of beating a MP4-12C given the performance numbers out of the box for the current version of the MP4-12C.

Unlike the original NSX I seriously doubt that the NSX 2.0 will have the same long term appeal given the complexity of it's design. All that hybrid technology will make the car very hard to modify for the enthusiasts unlike the relatively simple design of the original.

I with all due respect as well disagree that it has 0 chance as we don't know how all the performance will be tied together and we don't (at least to my knowledge) have another car with a similar set-up as NSX 2.0 to use for comparison. Just because the HP isn't high as some others doesn't mean it can't match them.

Last specs on the earth dreams set up had the car with 500+ lbft of tq at all four wheels delivering power faster than a turbo can. That in combo with the projected 3000lbs curb weight should make for a beast out the box and off the line. We just don't know enough about final specs to have a decent discussion at this point.

Everyone has their doubts but until it's done and aftermarket has had a chance to see what can be done with it again we just don't know. Tech is changing and we don't what might be able to be done with batteries even two years from now. Plus the hybrid tech doesn't stop intake or exhaust (i.e headers, catbacks) as they even make those parts aftermarket for cars like the current Insight. Again with all due respect It's just very short sighted to say these things.

 

[2slow2speed]

I with all due respect as well disagree that it has 0 chance as we don't know how all the performance will be tied together and we don't (at least to my knowledge) have another car with a similar set-up as NSX 2.0 to use for comparison. Just because the HP isn't high as some others doesn't mean it can't match them.

Last specs on the earth dreams set up had the car with 500+ lbft of tq at all four wheels delivering power faster than a turbo can. That in combo with the projected 3000lbs curb weight should make for a beast out the box and off the line. We just don't know enough about final specs to have a decent discussion at this point.

Everyone has their doubts but until it's done and aftermarket has had a chance to see what can be done with it again we just don't know. Tech is changing and we don't what might be able to be done with batteries even two years from now. Plus the hybrid tech doesn't stop intake or exhaust (i.e headers, catbacks) as they even make those parts aftermarket for cars like the current Insight. Again with all due respect It's just very short sighted to say these things.

I guess you are not used to working with complex systems that are interconnected, the more complex the system the harder it is to modify one portion of the system without the changes having effects downstream or upstream (as it might be the case)

Adding more HP to the NA motor without having the equivalent changes on the front electric motors would in theory throw everything that the Hybrid AWD system is supposed to be helping with out the door. It does not take a rocket scientist to come up to that conclusion only critical thinking skills.

A Insight/CRZ is not an AWD car, adding more power in line with the electric motors vs altering the balance of a car that has electric motors up front is a whole different story.

The GT-R's, Evo's, WRX's, Audi S4's use a single source of power, the various clutches, differentials, etc, etc are only used to control how the power is distributed front to rear or side to side. An Hybrid vehicle like the proposed NSX 2.0 is a whole different story.

If you believe that the Honda Engineers will design the SW that controls the car to take into account the variety of possible aftermarket configurations of the car from the get-go then you have a lot more faith on the Engineers than I do.

 

[WingZ]

I guess you are not used to working with complex systems that are interconnected, the more complex the system the harder it is to modify one portion of the system without the changes having effects downstream or upstream (as it might be the case)

Adding more HP to the NA motor without having the equivalent changes on the front electric motors would in theory throw everything that the Hybrid AWD system is supposed to be helping with out the door. It does not take a rocket scientist to come up to that conclusion only critical thinking skills.

A Insight/CRZ is not an AWD car, adding more power in line with the electric motors vs altering the balance of a car that has electric motors up front is a whole different story.

The GT-R's, Evo's, WRX's, Audi S4's use a single source of power, the various clutches, differentials, etc, etc are only used to control how the power is distributed front to rear or side to side. An Hybrid vehicle like the proposed NSX 2.0 is a whole different story.

If you believe that the Honda Engineers will design the SW that controls the car to take into account the variety of possible aftermarket configurations of the car from the get-go then you have a lot more faith on the Engineers than I do.

First like you said "In Theory" so neither of us knows for certain to speak of it one way or the other. You can give your best and that's fine sometimes all people have is a guess but neither you or I know for sure is what I keep saying.

Now your saying "If you believe" and again I said I don't know as no one knows expect the people working on the car. As far as making the comparison to the other AWD cars are they using an all electric system like the new NSX is supposed to? From what I'd heard it's supposed to be a first of sorts.

I honestly don't understand why anyone why would argue against something w/o final specs.

 

[PHOEN$X]

I would prefer the new NSX to be more 458-like than MP4 after viewing this comparo.

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[2slow2speed]

I would prefer the new NSX to be more 458-like than MP4 after viewing this comparo.

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BTW: That is an older video, take a look at what Chris Harris had to say about the newer version of the programming of the traction control module on the MP4-12C. The F458 was surreal at the track, can't wait till I get to test drive a MP4-12C in the right environment as well

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[Nero Tenebre]

But the MP4 is essentially an NSX for today in every way except the manufacturer. Spiritually it is the main challenger to the 458, using all sorts of new tech to take them on. It even looks the part, has the right formula, right goals (no compromise for usability and comfort), f1 pedigree, top f1 driver input during development, etc. You know given mclaren's history they took a hard look at the NSX for the MP412C bc Murray had so much respect for it as a benchmark while developing the F1. People will always say Ferrari has more soul or passion but there is something to a technical achievement that meets all its goals that is alluring. Plus, I think the mclaren will look better for longer than the 458, which is awkward ad experimental with its styling IMO. Sounds better than the MP4 though. I hate the way electric cars/hybrids sound, or rather don't.

 

[Caustic]

But the MP4 is essentially an NSX for today in every way except the manufacturer. Spiritually it is the main challenger to the 458, using all sorts of new tech to take them on. It even looks the part, has the right formula, right goals (no compromise for usability and comfort), f1 pedigree, top f1 driver input during development, etc. You know given mclaren's history they took a hard look at the NSX for the MP412C bc Murray had so much respect for it as a benchmark while developing the F1. People will always say Ferrari has more soul or passion but there is something to a technical achievement that meets all its goals that is alluring. Plus, I think the mclaren will look better for longer than the 458, which is awkward ad experimental with its styling IMO. Sounds better than the MP4 though. I hate the way electric cars/hybrids sound, or rather don't.

Why do you complain about the hybrid aspect of the new NSX, but don't complain about the non-NA aspect of the MP4-12C? Being NA was one of the major aspects of an NSX being an NSX.

The new NSX seems to be very close to the ideology of the old one. Lightweight, rear mid, purpose built sports car that uses technology to compete. And it is still NA. They even said they are going to race the car. How is this not worthy of the NSX name?

 

[WingZ]

But the MP4 is essentially an NSX for today in every way except the manufacturer. Spiritually it is the main challenger to the 458, using all sorts of new tech to take them on. It even looks the part, has the right formula, right goals (no compromise for usability and comfort), f1 pedigree, top f1 driver input during development, etc. You know given mclaren's history they took a hard look at the NSX for the MP412C bc Murray had so much respect for it as a benchmark while developing the F1. People will always say Ferrari has more soul or passion but there is something to a technical achievement that meets all its goals that is alluring. Plus, I think the mclaren will look better for longer than the 458, which is awkward ad experimental with its styling IMO. Sounds better than the MP4 though. I hate the way electric cars/hybrids sound, or rather don't.

An NSX that's been in an accident has better panel fit than an MP4. The one I was in couldn't close both doors unless one was open. Exterior body panel gaps should not be visible to the naked eye plus like Caustic says IRS not even NA. I'm glad you like the car but it's not a modern day NSX by any means.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

I still disagree, and so does Honda- that is why they are pushing this version as a "spiritual successor" to meet "today's challenges". They know how far they are from the original concept and that it's hard to link them with such little in common. BUT they want to ab-use the nsx name to hype up the marketing and get everyone excited about their new car as the "return" of the legend, which i think is kind of shitty. They know very well that they are not building a succesor but they know if they dangle that NSX carrot out there it will work.

I don't count hybrids as really naturally aspirated as there is an artificial "boost" of power, that's just as much "cheating" as turbos are, and I don't mind turbos as much as I mind hybrids bc at least turbos are tunable and have been around awhile. All hybrids have battery problems and I think it will be a huge issue as the cars age and replacement cost is enormous. And the "super-handling" all wheel drive, i really mind that too- why not just make a GTR competitor and put the engine in the front again like the HSV. The car is not mid-rwd its mid-awd when you factor in the batteries.

You don't just throw a legend's formula and character out the window like they are doing. To me, there is a level of disrespect and dishonesty saturated in this whole thing. If its not a successor then don't call it an NSX, or build a successor worthy of the namesake. Porsche develops successors with a pretty healthy level of respect, I think the same level is due to the NSX which is why I don't like the new car. These are just my opinions so hopefully I have explained them a bit better.

 

[WingZ]

I still disagree, and so does Honda- that is why they are pushing this version as a "spiritual successor" to meet "today's challenges". They know how far they are from the original concept and that it's hard to link them with such little in common. BUT they want to ab-use the nsx name to hype up the marketing and get everyone excited about their new car as the "return" of the legend, which i think is kind of shitty. They know very well that they are not building a succesor but they know if they dangle that NSX carrot out there it will work.

I don't count hybrids as really naturally aspirated as there is an artificial "boost" of power, that's just as much "cheating" as turbos are, and I don't mind turbos as much as I mind hybrids bc at least turbos are tunable and have been around awhile. All hybrids have battery problems and I think it will be a huge issue as the cars age and replacement cost is enormous. And the "super-handling" all wheel drive, i really mind that too- why not just make a GTR competitor and put the engine in the front again like the HSV. The car is not mid-rwd its mid-awd when you factor in the batteries.

You don't just throw a legend's formula and character out the window like they are doing. To me, there is a level of disrespect and dishonesty saturated in this whole thing. If its not a successor then don't call it an NSX, or build a successor worthy of the namesake. Porsche develops successors with a pretty healthy level of respect, I think the same level is due to the NSX which is why I don't like the new car. These are just my opinions so hopefully I have explained them a bit better.

This car is the only thing that the internal Honda sports car enthusiasts could get past Ito. Now that it's been green lighted they have more wiggle room to changes. What will those changes be? What will the final specs be? Only they know. Heck it's possible a non hybrid variant might come to market.

Hondas SHAWD with a mid engine configuration should be pretty awesome. From everything I've read it's superior to the Nissan system used on the GTR and would have made it to the ASCC (HSV is the race version of the ASCC and not what was coming to production) but everyone screamed to high heaven that it wasn't mid engine and that they (Honda) needed to make a mid engine successor to the NSX. Ito was like "not gonna happen" as he was very satified with the CRZ. This is the only way we could get another NSX in that it incorporates modern Honda tech and be as fuel efficient as possible.

It's coming. I'm happy. Hondas never outpowered GTR's but the NSX-R managed to out power to weight ratio the last version. This new car should have even better traction and at 3000lbs be seven hundred pounds lighter. Why isn't that good enough??

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Because its not an NSX. It's another high end sports car from Honda POSING as an NSX. It may be excellent but I still find it an offensive fraud as an NSX owner. I am anxious to see how it develops but am extremely disappointed and worried at this point, and can only expect more of the same given the momentum of the company. Hopefully they will find some responsibility and change the name at production to NS-Z since I doubt they will change their engineering package or aesthetics much.

 

[NSXrebel]

Because its not an NSX. It's another high end sports car from Honda POSING as an NSX. It may be excellent but I still find it an offensive fraud as an NSX owner. I am anxious to see how it develops but am extremely disappointed and worried at this point, and can only expect more of the same given the momentum of the company. Hopefully they will find some responsibility and change the name at production to NS-Z since I doubt they will change their engineering package or aesthetics much.

Wah, wah, wah. Thats all I hear from some of you guys. First we got the HSC concept. We never got any concrete specs on that, but you all cried, not enough horsepower. We were just told it was a V6 with more than 300hp. I don't recall a curb weight for that car, so who know what the hp/power ration was. It was as true to the NSX as we were gonna get.

Then Honda gave us that FUGLY POS, ASCC, with that hideous American "advanced" design. Now that car I hated, not only was it ugly as f$&#, it was front engined too.

Later they unveiled the HSV, which I don't consider to be the race version of the ASCC, as the lines and design had changed a lot, specially the front end, headlights to be specific. This car I liked a lot, but it was still no NSX as it was front engined. It looks mean and all business, but then again it's a race car. I've wondered how it would look in street trim, hopefully nothing like the ASCC. But judging from the HSV, I was prepared to accept a GT car from Honda, although not being named NSX.

Now they give us this new NSX Concept, lots of design cues from the original, it's mid engined, and a hybrid. so what. I would prefer a small high revving V8 a la 458, but Honda is calling the shots here. I'm just glad Honda is finally moving ahead with a new sports car, it's about time.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

So just because they are building something we should all just be sooo thankful and lower our standards/expectations to match whatever they build. There is also an opportunity cost to developing the new one- we probably won't get anything like it again for another 20 years so it's important it's right this time around. So, I will continue to criticize it, especially for its marketing hypocrisy as long as it carries the name. I doubt Honda cares much but public opinion was enough to get them to change their direction several times now so I am happy to put mine out there since I don't believe we should all be content to get something sporty.

 

[Caustic]

So just because they are building something we should all just be sooo thankful and lower our standards/expectations to match whatever they build. There is also an opportunity cost to developing the new one- we probably won't get anything like it again for another 20 years so it's important it's right this time around. So, I will continue to criticize it, especially for its marketing hypocrisy as long as it carries the name. I doubt Honda cares much but public opinion was enough to get them to change their direction several times now so I am happy to put mine out there since I don't believe we should all be content to get something sporty.

Can you give a clear, concise list of reasons why NSX 2.0 is not an NSX? Just trying to understand the reasoning.

 

[RSO 34]

This is the car I used to take my road test in the long, long ago........

This is what the new model of the "same" car looks like......

Should they not call it a "Dart"?...................

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Caustic, I thought I gave a pretty clear list... Not sure I should bullet the points and it's a shorter list to name the similarities: it has the engine in the middle and Honda makes it to sell as their halo car, and that's about it. I am not sure why I am the only one that sees this. I just think the new car with the same name should be an evolution of the original if it will carry the same name, whereas Honda is clearly departing from everything but the name to generate buzz.

Bob,
I do think they are just using the dart name to evoke the past for marketing benefits, but at least that car is the same basic layout at its core. It's not like they are copying another car in looks and layout (like NSX 2.0 is copying the R8 in styling and mid-awd layout). What if this dart was was awd and a hybrid, is it still a dart just bc they named it that? I am just not buying Honda's marketing bull, I am not that desperate to see another NSX that I will be irreverent to the original just to get something new.

 

[NSXrebel]

Caustic, I thought I gave a pretty clear list... Not sure I should bullet the points and it's a shorter list to name the similarities: it has the engine in the middle and Honda makes it to sell as their halo car, and that's about it. I am not sure why I am the only one that sees this. I just think the new car with the same name should be an evolution of the original if it will carry the same name, whereas Honda is clearly departing from everything but the name to generate buzz.

Bob,
I do think they are just using the dart name to evoke the past for marketing benefits, but at least that car is the same basic layout at its core. It's not like they are copying another car in looks and layout (like NSX 2.0 is copying the R8 in styling and mid-awd layout). What if this dart was was awd and a hybrid, is it still a dart just bc they named it that? I am just not buying Honda's marketing bull, I am not that desperate to see another NSX that I will be irreverent to the original just to get something new.

So that settles it.

 

[RSO 34]

I do think they are just using the dart name to evoke the past for marketing benefits, but at least that car is the same basic layout at its core.

My memories of the dodge dart/swinger cars were that they were a pos and I certainly would never even consider buying a new one if for no other reason than it uses the same name. To me that is poor marketing since we didn't think much of those cars as kids so dredging up that past turns me against the car when it might otherwise be a decent value currently.

 

[docjohn]

Caustic, I thought I gave a pretty clear list... Not sure I should bullet the points and it's a shorter list to name the similarities: it has the engine in the middle and Honda makes it to sell as their halo car, and that's about it. I am not sure why I am the only one that sees this. I just think the new car with the same name should be an evolution of the original if it will carry the same name, whereas Honda is clearly departing from everything but the name to generate buzz.

You are in the minority of opinion.Your desire for a continuous evolution went out the window the moment honda decided to sprinkle a few changes to the 02 models in preperation for ending production in 05.Now there will be a near 9 year gap in production to this new car.I want a revolutionary design.It will have to atract buyers somehow,so it needs a package that is unique enough to sway the typical buyer of cars in the 100-150k range.

 

[BD]

@WingZ.

I don't think 425 or 450 HP will be sufficient enough to compete, just in advertising alone it will die; while the E motors may give the car a boost to 60MPH, it does take a lot more to reach a respectable top speed of 190 plus.

At 130 grand (estimated price point), you're not far off from Porsche GT3, base R8 and more, and I'm certainly sure those cars will have a higher HP figure in three years.

That is my take, with 425/450, the car needs to be less than $90K. If higher, it needs 600 plus HP because everything else will have 750 by the time the new NSX is ready.

 

[Caustic]

Caustic, I thought I gave a pretty clear list... Not sure I should bullet the points and it's a shorter list to name the similarities: it has the engine in the middle and Honda makes it to sell as their halo car, and that's about it. I am not sure why I am the only one that sees this. I just think the new car with the same name should be an evolution of the original if it will carry the same name, whereas Honda is clearly departing from everything but the name to generate buzz.

I will keep bitching about it being ugly, all wheel drive, a hybrid, and not worthy of the NSX name no matter how fast or quick or new it may be. What we all want is a mp4-12c for half the price wrapped in the security blanket that is Honda. I would settle for less performance as long as it is faster than a GT-R, meaning the next generation which will be out when this is.

I guess this is the list you are talking about. If I missed anything let me know.
1. ugly
2. awd
3. hybrid

The only thing I can accept from that is that its awd. Very few thought the NSX was pretty when it was released, as a matter of fact it was seen as a poor derivative of Ferrari. As far as the hybrid thing, people need to get over it. It is not the main focus of the car's go fast power and all it does is add to it's efficiency with (according to Honda) minimal weight gain. But I will add that there is no manual, that is a big loss there.

In regard to awd, I welcome it. AWD can be done right and feel right as evidenced by the GTR and Lamborghini. On the other hand, having no manual hurts, but it may be something that car nuts over the world may have to come to accept for future generations of cars.

As I mentioned before, NSX 2.0 ticks off many of the requirements of the predecessor: lightweight, rear mid, purpose built sports car that uses technology to compete. And it is still NA, and it's still a V6. It will even use exotic materials in it's construction. The technology aspect can even umbrella the hybrid and awd additions to the car. If the above is really your list, I'm not sure you have an argument.

P.S. please don't mention NA, batteries (hybrid) and turbo. When you add a turbo to an engine it is no longer Naturally Aspirated. I haven't seen an engine need to have specific requirements like changing it's intake system to charge a battery.

 

[Honcho]

What made the original NSX stand out as an icon, to me, is how it turned the entire notion of an exotic car on its head. It was so revolutionary in the way that it was comfortable, reliable, packed with new technology, easy to drive, and relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain. For anyone that remembers exotic sports cars of the 1980's, this was a BIG DEAL.

I suppose Honda could have just followed the crowd, as is being suggested by some here, and built a V8 or V12 that was noisy, brutal to drive, cracked your vertibrae over every bump, broke down every 2,500 miles, and had "windows" you could barely see out of. I'm sure some argued "but the Countach is going to have 400 hp by 1990, so Honda better too otherwise it is a failure." Of course, that is not the Honda Way. Instead, they did something completely different, some would say crazy, and ended up with our beloved NSX.

I think the same thing is happening today. Some people are clamoring for following the crowd, i.e. another R8, 458 or MP4 clone. Could Honda do it? Yeah. Would people buy it? Nope. Instead, they have to set it apart somehow like the original did in 1989. Their choice is this Sport Hybrid concept. Personally, I think it is great and represents the Honda Way, the idea that you can act contrary to conventional wisdom and produce a masterpiece. They did it in 1989. I am betting they will do it again in 2014.

Btw, I am totally stoked about the sub-3000 lb target weight. After all, adding power only makes it faster on the straights. Adding weight reduction makes it faster EVERYWHERE. A true NSX.