NSX Concept at NY Auto Show - Pics

[WingZ]

@WingZ.

I don't think 425 or 450 HP will be sufficient enough to compete, just in advertising alone it will die; while the E motors may give the car a boost to 60MPH, it does take a lot more to reach a respectable top speed of 190 plus.

At 130 grand (estimated price point), you're not far off from Porsche GT3, base R8 and more, and I'm certainly sure those cars will have a higher HP figure in three years.

That is my take, with 425/450, the car needs to be less than $90K. If higher, it needs 600 plus HP because everything else will have 750 by the time the new NSX is ready.

We can't even do 190 in the states but the old NA2 did what 175
with the 02+ aero improvements so you don't think the additional horsepower with better aero can't overcome another 15mph??

Honda has matched the performance of HIGH HP cars in the past but the point of this is to be the super/sports car of the future. I'd rather beat my current NSX's MPG of 28-29 on fwy trips than try to beat it's current top speed.

Most tracks I go to rarely have enough straight away to reach much over 150mph so again that's just a bragging right. 0-60? Hey that you can get away with most times. I never bought the NSX to win pissing contests or bench race. I bought it because I liked the overall pkg.

LOL The old NSX cost $90k for 290hp so at 425-450 it needs to be less?? The new 911 is running triple digits at 400hp and the R8 is running triple with 425hp. Come on Vance quit playing:wink:

 

[WingZ]

What made the original NSX stand out as an icon, to me, is how it turned the entire notion of an exotic car on its head. It was so revolutionary in the way that it was comfortable, reliable, packed with new technology, easy to drive, and relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain. For anyone that remembers exotic sports cars of the 1980's, this was a BIG DEAL.

I suppose Honda could have just followed the crowd, as is being suggested by some here, and built a V8 or V12 that was noisy, brutal to drive, cracked your vertibrae over every bump, broke down every 2,500 miles, and had "windows" you could barely see out of. I'm sure some argued "but the Countach is going to have 400 hp by 1990, so Honda better too otherwise it is a failure." Of course, that is not the Honda Way. Instead, they did something completely different, some would say crazy, and ended up with our beloved NSX.

I think the same thing is happening today. Some people are clamoring for following the crowd, i.e. another R8, 458 or MP4 clone. Could Honda do it? Yeah. Would people buy it? Nope. Instead, they have to set it apart somehow like the original did in 1989. Their choice is this Sport Hybrid concept. Personally, I think it is great and represents the Honda Way, the idea that you can act contrary to conventional wisdom and produce a masterpiece. They did it in 1989. I am betting they will do it again in 2014.

Btw, I am totally stoked about the sub-3000 lb target weight. After all, adding power only makes it faster on the straights. Adding weight reduction makes it faster EVERYWHERE. A true NSX.

As always Bravo counselor +1

 

[2slow2speed]

I guess this is the list you are talking about. If I missed anything let me know.
1. ugly
2. awd
3. hybrid

The only thing I can accept from that is that its awd. Very few thought the NSX was pretty when it was released, as a matter of fact it was seen as a poor derivative of Ferrari. As far as the hybrid thing, people need to get over it. It is not the main focus of the car's go fast power and all it does is add to it's efficiency with (according to Honda) minimal weight gain. But I will add that there is no manual, that is a big loss there.

In regard to awd, I welcome it. AWD can be done right and feel right as evidenced by the GTR and Lamborghini. On the other hand, having no manual hurts, but it may be something that car nuts over the world may have to come to accept for future generations of cars.

As I mentioned before, NSX 2.0 ticks off many of the requirements of the predecessor: lightweight, rear mid, purpose built sports car that uses technology to compete. And it is still NA, and it's still a V6. It will even use exotic materials in it's construction. The technology aspect can even umbrella the hybrid and awd additions to the car. If the above is really your list, I'm not sure you have an argument.

P.S. please don't mention NA, batteries (hybrid) and turbo. When you add a turbo to an engine it is no longer Naturally Aspirated. I haven't seen an engine need to have specific requirements like changing it's intake system to charge a battery.

AWD on the Lamborghini is not really that great, drove a LP570-4 Superleggera at the track and that car pushed like crazy compared to the Cayman R and F458 that I drove at the same track on the same exact day.

As much as I enjoy driving my GT-R it feels very different to my Cayman R some of that is due to the platform layout and some of that s due to the AWD. I have no problems with my GT-R being AWD since the early days of the R32, they have always been AWD vehicles it is their legacy.

Honda has been pushing their SHAWD on their luxury segment vehicles for a while now, and what did it really accomplish? How did the RL turn out, how about the RDX how about the new TL? I find it useful on my MDX because I use the vehicle in all kinds of driving situations.

Do I really need AWD on a car that might see track duty as a sports car might eventually? How will the hybrid AWD system react to a customer changing pads for track use? How about rotors, BBK's, etc?, How about tires street/R/slicks? How about shocks/springs? Sway bars?, aero changes.

Just because Honda has announced that they will take "a" version of the NSX2.0 racing does not mean that technology will be transferred directly to the street version of the car.

I tend to take a bigger picture view of things instead of drinking the koolaid that any car manufacturer hands out.

For example I've asked the McLaren dealer how can I install a Harness bar on a MP4-12C, can it even be done without compromising the integrity of the CF tub? Their answer so far has been, they don't know, or wait for the track version of the MP4-12C.

I've asked the same question to the Ferrari dealer concerning the F458, their answer get the 4 point harness kit that is available from the factory for the rest of the world F458 but not in the US.

How about changing brake pad compound on the MP4-12C, given that the car does not have a LSD and only use a form of brake distribution to control the amount of torque that is distributed to each one of their rear wheels, they are not sure how using different compounds would affect the street version of the car.

On the F458 there is an ediff, but you can disable brake distribution/vectoring, so it is possible to drive the car with just the ediff and regular ABS.

Anyways, my point is that complexity for complexity's sake is not always a good thing. There are all kind of unintended consequences.

I'm clearly not the target audience for the NSX2.0, since I tend to work on and modify my vehicles.

For those who plan to just drive their vehicles from point A and point B and stay within the design parameters of the car then I guess the NSX2.0 might be an interesting car to consider.

 

[N Spec]

I would have to side Wingz and Caustic. The official specs have not been released yet and already decisions have been swayed or judgement somehow been passed.

• 450 to 480hp is plenty of power for a 3000 lb car. The GTR supposedly had the same output and it is over 700 lbs heaver. Thanks to it's 4WD powertrain, it can still compete with other super cars. I do not think super cars in 3-4 years will have 700+ hp and if they did, it would be because they have become so freakishly heavy. That would get a bit out of hand.
  
  
• The SH-AWD is a completely new approach to driving dynamics that is supposed to augment and make track performance more efficient/faster. The idea of using separate electric motors to amplify traction per wheel while there is still a powerful engine pushing the car from the rear is fantastic. There is no parasitic loss by redistributing power from one wheel to other because the main source is only powering the rear wheels. Also, the dragging inner wheel recharging the batteries is also a nice new touch.
  
  
• They are projecting weight to be less than or equal to the original NSX and the batteries are supposedly minimal. This reinforces the idea that the main source of power is going to be the V6 and the e-motors kick in only when traction conditions could be more ideal. This also brings the thought that the system should be deemed 4WD and not full time AWD.
  
  
• The argument that hybrid car sound puny is silly because again, the main source of power is going to be a potent V6. A high revving motor should sound beautiful, especially if it will rev around 9K. You won't even hear the electric motors. This is not a electric driven concept that is supplemented by a 1.x liter motor to recharge the batteries. So the development of a proper and potent V6 is instrumental to the success of this car!
  
  
• They have not even talked extensively about MPG and this is because that is not the main focus. It will be a nice perk since it does have a more efficient powertrain. I bet it will only be around 30 MPG, perhaps reaching to 40 MPG for the hwy, which is still damn good for an exotic supercar competitor. Everyone else is is barely knocking at 20 MPG (if even) on the highway.
  
  
• The looks are subjective and may be a concern, but I would not go on to say that the new concept is NOT ugly. In detail, the new concept is definitely more modern and better articulated than the original. In overall proportions, it is built upon the original's frame and design. My biggest concern would be sticking closer to the original's proportions and reworking the rear treatment to make is appear longer like a sharp blade of the original.

 

[WingZ]

Nice breakdown N Spec.

People are just b*tching to b*tch and they'll keep on doing it. That seems to be a Honda/NSX curse as well. If they brought it out exactly like the original NA1 people would b*tch that nothing changed :biggrin:

 

[Caustic]

AWD on the Lamborghini is not really that great, drove a LP570-4 Superleggera at the track and that car pushed like crazy compared to the Cayman R and F458 that I drove at the same track on the same exact day.

As much as I enjoy driving my GT-R it feels very different to my Cayman R some of that is due to the platform layout and some of that s due to the AWD. I have no problems with my GT-R being AWD since the early days of the R32, they have always been AWD vehicles it is their legacy.

Honda has been pushing their SHAWD on their luxury segment vehicles for a while now, and what did it really accomplish? How did the RL turn out, how about the RDX how about the new TL? I find it useful on my MDX because I use the vehicle in all kinds of driving situations.

Do I really need AWD on a car that might see track duty as a sports car might eventually? How will the hybrid AWD system react to a customer changing pads for track use? How about rotors, BBK's, etc?, How about tires street/R/slicks? How about shocks/springs? Sway bars?, aero changes.

Just because Honda has announced that they will take "a" version of the NSX2.0 racing does not mean that technology will be transferred directly to the street version of the car.

I tend to take a bigger picture view of things instead of drinking the koolaid that any car manufacturer hands out.

For example I've asked the McLaren dealer how can I install a Harness bar on a MP4-12C, can it even be done without compromising the integrity of the CF tub? Their answer so far has been, they don't know, or wait for the track version of the MP4-12C.

I've asked the same question to the Ferrari dealer concerning the F458, their answer get the 4 point harness kit that is available from the factory for the rest of the world F458 but not in the US.

How about changing brake pad compound on the MP4-12C, given that the car does not have a LSD and only use a form of brake distribution to control the amount of torque that is distributed to each one of their rear wheels, they are not sure how using different compounds would affect the street version of the car.

On the F458 there is an ediff, but you can disable brake distribution/vectoring, so it is possible to drive the car with just the ediff and regular ABS.

Anyways, my point is that complexity for complexity's sake is not always a good thing. There are all kind of unintended consequences.

I'm clearly not the target audience for the NSX2.0, since I tend to work on and modify my vehicles.

For those who plan to just drive their vehicles from point A and point B and stay within the design parameters of the car then I guess the NSX2.0 might be an interesting car to consider.

I was really thinking about the Aventador when I mentioned Lambo. It really is a part of the new generation of sports cars that have been released by various manufacturers over past year or two. By everything I've read, the handling is spectacular and nicely rear biased. But I get what you are saying, awd and rwd are not the same and really don't feel the same. NSX 2.0 should be closer to the Cayman R. But we really don't know how it will feel or handle yet. I'm optimistic about it, Honda has always been about handling balance.

As for as mods and track preparation, NSX 2.0 may not initially be for you. Similar to what the MacLaren dealer told you, if the car is somewhat successful, perhaps there will be a stripped out track model that will provide you the specifics you desire. But as time marches on, I just don't see how we are going to get away from complexity and integration. Everything in our lives continues to become more complex and integrated. But car guys adapt and overcome right? Is this how it felt when fuel injection began to replace carburetors? I'm sure people will figure out how to mod the machine, it's inevitable, and kind of exciting.

 

[Silver F16]

Alright, my turn to bitch... Perry :smile:

• 3000 lbs is highly unlikely. How many sports car with 400+HP and AWD or hybrid weight in at 3000 lbs? Let alone the price tag of around 120K. GT3 RS comes in at 2998 but it ain't AWD and it is a hardcore stripped down version. GT2 RS comes in at 3020lbs but that is a quarter million bucks. 3000 lbs NSX 2.0 probably not going to happen.

• Slim chance of turbo. Honda is already doing hybrid and AWD, it complicated enough to consider adding turbo to the mix.

• Carbon Fiber sucks for impact. The material shatters. Talk to Boeing engineers, they will tell you why CF is a bad deal for occupants during impact.

• Nero has some valid points regarding how NSX 2.0 design direction is not as pure as the original. AWD and hybrid dilute the purity. While still mid-engine, NSX 2.0 design has strayed from the original, hence many including me say the new concept doesn't grab our soul and that it looks different enough for many to say that it resembles an Audi R8. 911 is a text book case of maintaining legacy and consistent execution. Same engine configuration, same looks and each iteration getting slightly better without deviating excessively from their lineage.

• I would be on board if they offer a NSX 2.0 with no hybrid. Keep it simple and ditch the extra 200+ lbs. I don't care if it is thirstier and doesn't have torque vectoring in the front wheels. However, with today's Honda, the non-hybrid variant will never happen. There has been a exodus with senior Honda employees. Honda has lost its soul and they want to make every damn car green and ugly.

• Speaking of ugly, ditch the beak! How many more years and ugly iterations of the beak do you need to milk? Get a clue Honda. The majority do not like the beak, regardless of how toned down it is. It is a bad design. Ditch it, say that you mess up, and move on.

• Honda is marketing the NSX name to no end. So much so that the new Iron man car is based on a 20 year old platform. I was going to send pics of the Stark 33 car out. But I knew that many would laugh at Honda using such a dated (nevetheless good) platform and powertrain to showcase a car that is to resemble something cutting edge. If you want to do a movie car, put your $$ down and do it right. Gave us a car based on the new NSX without the dated interior. And if you are going to have rear hatch that ugly on Tony Starks car, there better be a flux capacitor under that hatch.

• Lastly, while the flying buttress is cute....for the Notre Dame in Paris, it has no place on a mid-engine car. Honda need to ditch it or figure out how to move the buttress out of the way for engine bay service. Its painful enough to be bending over like that on NSX 1.0. We don't need 2.0 to get worse for DIYers. My back isn't getting any younger.

There, done bitching. I feel so much better. Now get to work Honda. I made a list of things for you to fix. You got 2 years and 8 months left to clean it up. Better yet, Honda should do what my team does in my line of work...Namely, exceed customer expectations and deliver your project ahead of schedule. Time is ticking Honda. Get to work.

 

[N Spec]

People are just b*tching to b*tch and they'll keep on doing it. That seems to be a Honda/NSX curse as well. If they brought it out exactly like the original NA1 people would b*tch that nothing changed :biggrin:

Exactly, some people will never associate true logic with their own opinions and feelings. The biggest controversy of the new NSX is that it is Hybrid and AWD. At first glance, everyone is like O NOES! AWD means more weight, understeer, powertrain loss. Hybrid means weak power, more weight and not visceral enough.

Unfortunately, if you have not read up and understand the concept of this proposed system, then you may be misinformed. The delightful video should explain everything you need to know. The system aims to eliminate all the bad things about hybrids and AWD systems.

-The vectoring capabilities of the independent motors can be tuned to control understeer or oversteer precisely, therefore it can result in more precise handling than even a RWD car. This unique approach will not sap any power from the V6, which of course will be more powerful and efficient than the previous gen V6. Hopefully it will sound extremely exotic with ~9K redline to achieve something like 120hp/liter all by itself.

-If Honda is aiming for sub 3000 lb weight, I am sure they can reach their goals. It means they will compromise some safety and perhaps keep it very compact. Nonetheless, I think it will still be safer than the previous gen NSX. The area of focus that needs revisiting should be the rear end and not so much the front. The beak detail, is simply, a minor detail that can be changed easily.

-This new NSX concept is not going to be a conventional AWD or Hybrid. So throw out your preconceived notions on a differiental-based AWD powertrain or an electric driven system supplemented by a humble 4 cylinder. The new NSX is basically an NSX with a more powerful engine and newer tech. It is an evolution of the first gen and you are blind if you cannot see this either on paper or by visual comparisons.

 

[WingZ]

Alright, my turn to bitch... Perry :smile:

• 3000 lbs is highly unlikely. How many sports car with 400+HP and AWD or hybrid weight in at 3000 lbs? Let alone the price tag of around 120K. GT3 RS comes in at 2998 but it ain't AWD and it is a hardcore stripped down version. GT2 RS comes in at 3020lbs but that is a quarter million bucks. 3000 lbs NSX 2.0 probably not going to happen.

• Slim chance of turbo. Honda is already doing hybrid and AWD, it complicated enough to consider adding turbo to the mix.

• Carbon Fiber sucks for impact. The material shatters. Talk to Boeing engineers, they will tell you why CF is a bad deal for occupants during impact.

• Nero has some valid points regarding how NSX 2.0 design direction is not as pure as the original. AWD and hybrid dilute the purity. While still mid-engine, NSX 2.0 design has strayed from the original, hence many including me say the new concept doesn't grab our soul and that it looks different enough for many to say that it resembles an Audi R8. 911 is a text book case of maintaining legacy and consistent execution. Same engine configuration, same looks and each iteration getting slightly better without deviating excessively from their lineage.

• I would be on board if they offer a NSX 2.0 with no hybrid. Keep it simple and ditch the extra 200+ lbs. I don't care if it is thirstier and doesn't have torque vectoring in the front wheels. However, with today's Honda, the non-hybrid variant will never happen. There has been a exodus with senior Honda employees. Honda has lost its soul and they want to make every damn car green and ugly.

• Speaking of ugly, ditch the beak! How many more years and ugly iterations of the beak do you need to milk? Get a clue Honda. The majority do not like the beak, regardless of how toned down it is. It is a bad design. Ditch it, say that you mess up, and move on.

• Honda is marketing the NSX name to no end. So much so that the new Iron man car is based on a 20 year old platform. I was going to send pics of the Stark 33 car out. But I knew that many would laugh at Honda using such a dated (nevetheless good) platform and powertrain to showcase a car that is to resemble something cutting edge. If you want to do a movie car, put your $$ down and do it right. Gave us a car based on the new NSX without the dated interior. And if you are going to have rear hatch that ugly on Tony Starks car, there better be a flux capacitor under that hatch.

• Lastly, while the flying buttress is cute....for the Notre Dame in Paris, it has no place on a mid-engine car. Honda need to ditch it or figure out how to move the buttress out of the way for engine bay service. Its painful enough to be bending over like that on NSX 1.0. We don't need 2.0 to get worse for DIYers. My back isn't getting any younger.

There, done bitching. I feel so much better. Now get to work Honda. I made a list of things for you to fix. You got 2 years and 8 months left to clean it up. Better yet, Honda should do what my team does in my line of work...Namely, exceed customer expectations and deliver your project ahead of schedule. Time is ticking Honda. Get to work.

Got it out your system???? LOL J/K :biggrin:

I agree they have a lot to get done but I refuse to condemn before it's done. It's not sipping Kool aid to say "Hey sounds great..now do it" If it's no good there will be plenty of other options to let my dollar do it's talking.

The whole complexity argument gets diluted by the fact that when V-tec first came out people were like "too complicated to" or "going to be lots of maintenance or valve issues" , "never hold up in the long run"

Honda has sooooo much on the line with this new car and such high goals to live up to that more than likely they are looking at things that even you skeptics are not. You have your issues but then there are concerns over safety , crash regulations , reliability , maintenance etc.

This going to be their new flagship and they've taken so many hits for basically just sucking the last few years that they have to get this as close to right as possible.

Will everyone be pleased ..Hell no! Should they just not do anything becuase not everyone will be pleased?? Hell no:biggrin:

Exactly, some people will never associate true logic with their own opinions and feelings. The biggest controversy of the new NSX is that it is Hybrid and AWD. At first glance, everyone is like O NOES! AWD means more weight, understeer, powertrain loss. Hybrid means weak power, more weight and not visceral enough.

Unfortunately, if you have not read up and understand the concept of this proposed system, then you may be misinformed. The delightful video should explain everything you need to know. The system aims to eliminate all the bad things about hybrids and AWD systems.

-The vectoring capabilities of the independent motors can be tuned to control understeer or oversteer precisely, therefore it can result in more precise handling than even a RWD car. This unique approach will not sap any power from the V6, which of course will be more powerful and efficient than the previous gen V6. Hopefully it will sound extremely exotic with ~9K redline to achieve something like 120hp/liter all by itself.

-If Honda is aiming for sub 3000 lb weight, I am sure they can reach their goals. It means they will compromise some safety and perhaps keep it very compact. Nonetheless, I think it will still be safer than the previous gen NSX. The area of focus that needs revisiting should be the rear end and not so much the front. The beak detail, is simply, a minor detail that can be changed easily.

-This new NSX concept is not going to be a conventional AWD or Hybrid. So throw out your preconceived notions on a differiental-based AWD powertrain or an electric driven system supplemented by a humble 4 cylinder. The new NSX is basically an NSX with a more powerful engine and newer tech. It is an evolution of the first gen and you are blind if you cannot see this either on paper or by visual comparisons.

I was very critical when details of hybrid and awd drive came out , but the AWD system as they've shown it is pretty slick and has none of the weight disadvantages of other systems. That alone was a feat. If they're able to keep batteries weight down as well .. awesome!

We don't know much about the new engine other than V6. It's not written in stone that it's 3.5 just "assumed". If it's going to be a $100k+ car Honda can't use the exact same engine as the RLX.

 

[Honcho]

Time for my anti-b*&ch.

3000 lbs is highly unlikely. How many sports car with 400+HP and AWD or hybrid weight in at 3000 lbs? Let alone the price tag of around 120K. GT3 RS comes in at 2998 but it ain't AWD and it is a hardcore stripped down version. GT2 RS comes in at 3020lbs but that is a quarter million bucks. 3000 lbs NSX 2.0 probably not going to happen.

Honda executives told Ito in 1987 that the aluminum monocoque was impossible and even encouraged others on the team to quit as it was a "lost cause."

Slim chance of turbo. Honda is already doing hybrid and AWD, it complicated enough to consider adding turbo to the mix.

No need. Honda intends the motors to replace the turbo as a power adder. Instant 100% torque (no lag or spool), no emissions. This car is supposed to be revolutionary, not evolutionary.

Nero has some valid points regarding how NSX 2.0 design direction is not as pure as the original. AWD and hybrid dilute the purity. While still mid-engine, NSX 2.0 design has strayed from the original, hence many including me say the new concept doesn't grab our soul and that it looks different enough for many to say that it resembles an Audi R8. 911 is a text book case of maintaining legacy and consistent execution. Same engine configuration, same looks and each iteration getting slightly better without deviating excessively from their lineage.

One of the most common and nastiest complaints (in a dismissive sense) about the NSX was that it was a "cheap asian knockoff" of a Ferrari 348 in terms of styling. It's funny we are seeing the same kind of comments today, except the comparator is the R8.

I was very critical when details of hybrid and awd drive came out , but the AWD system as they've shown it is pretty slick and has none of the weight disadvantages of other systems. That alone was a feat. If they're able to keep batteries weight down as well .. awesome!

We don't know much about the new engine other than V6. It's not written in stone that it's 3.5 just "assumed". If it's going to be a $100k+ car Honda can't use the exact same engine as the RLX.

If you remember the Honcho/WingZ Concept, this is almost exactly what we predicted. The way I see it, they can go 2 ways with the 3.5: (a) Punch it out to 3.8 and go DOHC; or (b) keep it at 3.5, go DOHC and spin it up to 8000-9000 rpm. I would prefer (b), as it will have a much more exotic exhaust note, like our NSX's do.

 

[Caustic]

A few people mentioned Porsche as the quintessential example of legacy. Perspective is really needed here. While the 911 bodywork has moved at a glacial evolutionary pace, what was going on under the body panels was not. Porsche has continually updated its design, added and changed radical features of its car since its introduction. Adding turbos, giving it an AWD system, and changing from air cooled to water cooling are all major changes to the original design. Even the engine location has moved more and more mid to improve balance. At this point the engine is as close to mid as you can get while still being slightly past the rear axle to give it the rear designation.

Most of the changes Porsche made to the 911 over the years upset the vocal minority of "porschephiles". They cried that these changes were not true to the original intent of the car. But the fact remains Porsche did not just make the 911 exactly the same since the 60s. It had taken steps to move forward with technology and design to make the car better, even at the cost of pissing off their fanbase.

I don't think anyone really should have expected the next iteration of the NSX to be as iconic and groundbreaking as the original had. There were so many factors involved (internal and external) to make the original what it was that trying to repeat it would be impossible, and doomed to failure. I suspect Honda felt the same way, and was very conflicted on how to improve upon the original.

So when you say "omg, NSX 2.0 is not as pure as the original", take a step back and ask yourself two questions. "What sequel ever is? Does it really have to be?" Maybe NSX 2.0 is just taking the steps necessary to move forward.

 

[2slow2speed]

I understand Silver F16 comments, and I happen to agree 100%, NSX2.0 is not what NSX1.0 was all about.

The original NSX was simple enough that people could actually do DIY projects without having to have an entire set of Acura specific diagnostics tools to figure out what was going on with the system or to reset system parameters.

I keep wondering if any of you have worked on your own late model vehicles recently.

On my 2010 GT-R you need to have a Consult III system to actually do some specific service tasks like adjusting the clutch engagement point on the DCT tranny after replacing the transmission fluid. I can replace the transmission fluid myself but I still would need to take the car into the dealership to have the clutch adjusted/calibrated.

Last week I had to take my 2009 Acura MDX because the mirror actuators were not working correctly. The only way to diagnose if the problem was within the electrical subsystem or the mechanical subsystem was to run the Acura diagnostics to check for error codes. It is a good thing that I was covered under warranty, otherwise I would have to pay for 2 mirror actuators because both driver and passenger side mirror actuators were throwing codes after all.

On a modern Porsche there is PIWIS, without it you can't perform some specific service tasks as well. Swap the OEM seat to a race seat and you need the PIWIS tool to turn off the airbag light. Want to flush the brakes? To do a complete flush you need the PIWIS tool to activate the ABS subsystem.

It used to be that most car enthusiasts were DIYers to some degree, anyone who has actually worked on their own vehicles themselves would understand that complexity for complexity's sake is not always a good thing to have.

I'm an engineer by both education as well as professional background so I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty with both things that are mechanical and electrical as well as SW/Firmware debugging/coding. But at the same time I don't want to spend 10K/20K/30K for diagnostics tools just to be able to service my vehicles.

 

[N Spec]

No need. Honda intends the motors to replace the turbo as a power adder. Instant 100% torque (no lag or spool), no emissions. This car is supposed to be revolutionary, not evolutionary.

You are right.This new concept is an evolution of the original NSX idea; the design cues are inspired by previous gen while being built upon the same layout and the idea of extremely efficient use of hp while limiting weight vs. just all out big hp. However, if the proposed SH-AWD system is executed correctly, Honda would be leading the edge once again and it would revolutionize the industry.

 

[akira3d]

I liked it more in person than I did in photos. However, I still dont have the "gotta have it" passion I did in '89.

Perhaps that's because you already own the one you had to have in '89.

 

[RSO 34]

Perhaps that's because you already own the one you had to have in '89.

But the difference is I still have the same passion for the original and mine is now 16 years old. I have gone through a 200SX, 300ZX, Maxima, Pathfinder, Civic, Mercedes 300SE, Mercedes E55 AMG (still have) and Mercedes E350 4Matic (still have) and although I enjoyed each there is a difference when it comes to the NSX. I am sure most people here would understand, at least to some extent, but out of all my cars the NSX was a "must have" and the others were either a necessity or an impulse buy (my current 2 mercedes were bought on the spot when I saw each being off loaded at the dealership as I was waiting to pick up another one from the service department).

I liked the concept better in person than I did originally but honestly I don't have to have it, don't anticipate buying it as a necessity nor as an impulse buy and will appreciate it but probably never own one.

 

[1SICKLEX]

Question.

Acura's SH-AWD connects the front/rear with a driveshaft so even though its FWD biased it is all connected. The new RLX hybrid is supposedly sharing its engine and hybrid components with the NSX. The RLX hybrid with the new eSH-AWD loses the driveshaft as the RLX will be offered in FWD and AWD configurations where the last model was AWD only. The rear wheels get electric motors.

I assume with the NSX it will be mid-engined with RWD and then the electric motors will power the front wheels?

Note also the 2013 RDX dropped SH-AWD for a regular AWD system.

I think its fabulous for the hybrid market to have a sports car like this but it just sounds weird with the NSX name. Maybe call it NLX?

 

[N Spec]

Question.

Acura's SH-AWD connects the front/rear with a driveshaft so even though its FWD biased it is all connected. The new RLX hybrid is supposedly sharing its engine and hybrid components with the NSX. The RLX hybrid with the new eSH-AWD loses the driveshaft as the RLX will be offered in FWD and AWD configurations where the last model was AWD only. The rear wheels get electric motors.

I assume with the NSX it will be mid-engined with RWD and then the electric motors will power the front wheels?

Note also the 2013 RDX dropped SH-AWD for a regular AWD system.

I think its fabulous for the hybrid market to have a sports car like this but it just sounds weird with the NSX name. Maybe call it NLX?

This video should explain the new tech:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/08eA3364Hyk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

More detailed explanations can be found any where online for the NSX Concept's SH-AWD. Seriously though, people should do some research before making a conclusion based on just a quick read on specs.

N2X would makes more sense than NLX.

Some may have forgotten NSX stands for New Sportscar eXperimental. For both instances, back in the 80s and now present time, Honda was/is experimenting with new technology and direction for their sports car. So NSX is befitting to the current concept. This is not 2008, when they were trying pass off a long nose car with a gas efficient V10 as the NSX. This is 2012, after they realized they botched that and this is a better direction truer to the original.

 

[MPowerKai]

So when you say "omg, NSX 2.0 is not as pure as the original", take a step back and ask yourself two questions. "What sequel ever is? Does it really have to be?" Maybe NSX 2.0 is just taking the steps necessary to move forward.

Batman

I will be looking at a new car when the NSX is supposed to come out. I just want the NSX 2.0 to do one thing, be on par or faster than the GTR. That's all I want, if it can do that then sign me up, otherwise I'll be looking into a Lambo, Pcar, or Fcar.

 

[Caustic]

So when you say "omg, NSX 2.0 is not as pure as the original", take a step back and ask yourself two questions. "What sequel ever is? Does it really have to be?" Maybe NSX 2.0 is just taking the steps necessary to move forward.

Batman

You have me there! Well done.

 

[NSXrebel]

Batman

I will be looking at a new car when the NSX is supposed to come out. I just want the NSX 2.0 to do one thing, be on par or faster than the GTR. That's all I want, if it can do that then sign me up, otherwise I'll be looking into a Lambo, Pcar, or Fcar.

LOL
What Lambo, Pcar, or Fcar is on par or faster than the GTR? and at what price?

 

[Tytus]

I just saw the NSX Concept at the Auto Show. Like Bob said I like it in person better than in print. I will not speculate about power, motor, construction materials, etc. as these items were not presented and can only comment on the body design as presented.

I love the new look and it will be a killer if they keep 80% of it true to form. Though I am concerned about a few areas:

1. Flying buttress - how are you supposed to clean under that? Looks fragile and the space under it is too fussy and appears unresolved. They need to fill it in with glass and rear window to eliminate the hole. You really can't detect this in the pictures but you see it in person and it has to go.

2. Engine Access - Maybe they don't plan on letting you in there often and you will have to enter through access panels inside, the side or underneath. (The new P-car cannot be accessed from the engine hatch, you have to drop the rear bumper.) The buttress is definitely in the way and has to be incorporated into the hatch so you can get inside as you won't be able to reach over it.

3. Door opening - the doors are huge and I hope the are not planing on some sort of upward swing of the doors, not practical for frequent use. Conventional doors would be wise and less gimmicky.

4. Trunk Space - Not much ass end on this car so where do the golf clubs go? The everyday exotic usefulness is what I love about our cars. Almost none of the others have adequate luggage space for real travel, our NSX does and it is great to be able to pack for a weekend more than a toothbrush. It is most fun to be able to use your car for touring and not just day to day joy riding.

I hope they get these issues worked out for practicality reasons and don't just shrug it off as, "since it is an exotic they are not important". Most importantly the door and trunk space issues must be adequately resolved. If they do, I will get one, otherwise I won't be that interested for the same reason's I won't get a Lambo or R8 and just keep the NSX I have; best exotic to date for my needs.

Tytus

 

[N Spec]

Tytus, those are valid points and I had the same concerns about practicality. Once again, main focus should be on revisiting the rear end treatment. It just would not make sense to have an UNPRACTICAL hybrid NSX. I also agree with the complaint that this new car may not be as DIY friendly.

I hope Honda does address the practicality issues. Biggest thing is to have a decent rear trunk and avoid the trend of short rearends. It would transform the concept in a good way and lose that silly R8 comparison. I also think they can keep the flying buttress idea, but do it in a more practical way...

Perhaps they should go retro and lose the long rear hatch glass (to save weight) and have the flying buttress project the silhouette. :biggrin:

 

[MPowerKai]

LOL
What Lambo, Pcar, or Fcar is on par or faster than the GTR? and at what price?

I'm not going to lie, I am also a badge whore so a Gallardo with it's raging bull or 360 Modena with it's Italian stallion will offset the speed lol. As for the pcar then it will be the GTR's primary competition, the 911 turbo

 

[BD]

We can't even do 190 in the states but the old NA2 did what 175
with the 02+ aero improvements so you don't think the additional horsepower with better aero can't overcome another 15mph??

Honda has matched the performance of HIGH HP cars in the past but the point of this is to be the super/sports car of the future. I'd rather beat my current NSX's MPG of 28-29 on fwy trips than try to beat it's current top speed.

Most tracks I go to rarely have enough straight away to reach much over 150mph so again that's just a bragging right. 0-60? Hey that you can get away with most times. I never bought the NSX to win pissing contests or bench race. I bought it because I liked the overall pkg.

LOL The old NSX cost $90k for 290hp so at 425-450 it needs to be less?? The new 911 is running triple digits at 400hp and the R8 is running triple with 425hp. Come on Vance quit playing:wink:

The old NSX cost 90K because Honda failed to improve the NSX to match evolution of the baby Ferraris.

1990 NSX 270HP $60K
1990 348 300HP $100k.


1997 NSX-T 290HP $90k
1997 355 Spider 380HP $120K

2005 NSX-T 290HP $90k
2005 Ferrari F430 490HP plus $200K


So if Honda is serious about competing with the Entry Level Ferrari at any price they're setting, they need to to have more HP figure than a Ferrari from a decade ago since the NSX 2.0 is due to be released as a 2015 model year.

Think about this. The current 458 has 570HP and is destine to have a major HP increase when the new body style is due when the new NSX hits the show room, and if the NSX only have 425/450 and the Ferrari with 600, this car will not have any legs to stand on, not to mention what Porsche is going to with the 911. The GT3 4.0 is already with the same performance figure as the "rumor" of this car.

Don't get me wrong, I like it and I want one, and I will probably find a way to get one, but what I'm saying is, if Honda want to sell this thing and not keep it in production until the day fossil fuels becomes a legend, they better do something sweet.

 

[WingZ]

The old NSX cost 90K because Honda failed to improve the NSX to match evolution of the baby Ferraris.

1990 NSX 270HP $60K
1990 348 300HP $100k.


1997 NSX-T 290HP $90k
1997 355 Spider 380HP $120K

2005 NSX-T 290HP $90k
2005 Ferrari F430 490HP plus $200K


So if Honda is serious about competing with the Entry Level Ferrari at any price they're setting, they need to to have more HP figure than a Ferrari from a decade ago since the NSX 2.0 is due to be released as a 2015 model year.

Think about this. The current 458 has 570HP and is destine to have a major HP increase when the new body style is due when the new NSX hits the show room, and if the NSX only have 425/450 and the Ferrari with 600, this car will not have any legs to stand on, not to mention what Porsche is going to with the 911. The GT3 4.0 is already with the same performance figure as the "rumor" of this car.

Don't get me wrong, I like it and I want one, and I will probably find a way to get one, but what I'm saying is, if Honda want to sell this thing and not keep it in production until the day fossil fuels becomes a legend, they better do something sweet.

Problem was Ferrari engines were way overrated. It wasn't until the F430 they actually surpassed the NA2. Plus the 360 was going for closer to $200k wasn't it?? My thing is if the old NA2 was pulling 4.5-4.8 0-60 with "only" 290hp (down rated to 280 by 05) and really really old tech the an additional 150 to possibly 200hp with better traction plus actual torque (talking a whole lot with instant battery boost) it's going to be fast. Honda has never needed to match hp with Ferrari to match their acceleration.

This engine will have almost 25years of improvements over the C30A/C32B. It should be a great car. Have to wait and see though. I want one as well but I want to wait and see if Honda "follows" the year to year improvement like Nissan has done with the GTR. If that's the case the first year may have a lower hp number and have increases every few years along with chassis improvements.