Obama is declared the president elect of the USA!

[steveny]

Correction---GM got 25 billion dollars to retool to make smaller cars and design hybrids in September, now they want $25 billion more, just to keep from going under.

Sounds like a black hole to me.

I had someone call me about buying part ownership in a complex they own. They have decent numbers but they could be a lot better. They want me to invest in their failed business plan and I just don't see why I could do something like that.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

I hate to be a cold hearted bastard but I say let them go under and let the chips fall where they may. BTW - I said the same thing about the Wall Street bailout (and I am a banker), the same thing about the airlines after 9/11, and the same thing about AIG.

There are supposed to be consequences for bad business practices.

I wasn't my normal entirely opposed to the airline bailout after 9/11 - as that was clearly a very difficult situation that had nothing to do with bad business practices. Consumer demand literally evaporated over night.

I favor Bush's notion that the federal government should be the ultimate insurer against terrorism- as they should be working for the people. All of us should be getting something out of the stupid about of defense dollars that are spent every year out of our income taxes. Every report bore out that if the CIA & FBI had done their job the right way; it would have never happened in the first place.

As to bailing out GM because they are some kind of "American Icon"... well yes that is just stupid. They have been making crappy autos for decades and been here before.

 

[Da Hapa]

I wasn't my normal entirely opposed to the airline bailout after 9/11 - as that was clearly a very difficult situation that had nothing to do with bad business practices. Consumer demand literally evaporated over night.

John - I can't argue the impact of terrorism on consumer demand. And concede that my example is a bit simplistic.

However, the airlines were (and in many cases remain) way, way, way over-leveraged. Saying that the need for a bailout had "nothign to do with bad business practices" simply isn't true either.

Had those companies been run properly, they could have shouldered the burden of 9/11 without Joan and Joe Taxpayer's assistance. The events of 9/11 merely brought those bad business practices under closer scrutiny.

I'll say it again... there should be consequences to poor business practices.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

2001, we had a balanced budget, and Congress wouldn't give Bush $Billions to shore up Social security, then Bush wanted to invest Social Security in the Stock Market...

 

[queenlives]

As an American I will be the first to step up and say: I am ashamed to be an American.

john,

as an ashamed american who refused to vote in this election, i'm curious what you're actually doing to improve the country you're a citizen of while reaping the benefits of belonging to.

hal

 

[sahtt]

2001, we had a balanced budget, and Congress wouldn't give Bush $Billions to shore up Social security, then Bush wanted to invest Social Security in the Stock Market...

What is this supposed to mean?

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

john,

as an ashamed American who refused to vote in this election, i'm curious what you're actually doing to improve the country you're a citizen of while reaping the benefits of belonging to.

hal

What benefits are you referring to again? Because I don't use public transportation, public education, public grants, collect on medicaid, un-employment, welfare, food stamps, or social security, utilize subsidized parks and sports stadiums, get to fish off Coast Guard cutters, visit Mars, libraries, the pool at the community center, attend bingo night at the firehall, etc etc...

Like many white collar professionals- I figured it out myself and pay my own ride and have nothing to apologize for. I pay more than my fair share via income/property/fuel/sales taxes, licenses and fees - in total about 50-55% of total income is the current national average.... so the rest of the lazy people in our country- many of whom aren't even legal citizens... won't have to and can get a free ride. That's my charitable donation.

The un-patriotic reality? When it comes to getting screwed by corrupt government.. I am pretty sure you can find that same benefit on most corners of planet earth [so I can only speculate that perhaps it was the benefits you were referring to.]

Politics is the science of wealth re-distribution. Contrary to the patriotic crap many were taught at the ballpark in high school- America is far from a shining beacon of well run government for the people. It's a bloated albatross.

What was good has been sold-out wholesale... leaving us with a cesspool of liberal special interests and greed. If it were my call the statue of liberty should be knocked down and replaced with a couple of guys worshiping the almighty god.... DOW.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Bankers: Some quotes by people who knew what they were talking about. ...

"The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating." Thomas Jefferson

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."
Thomas Jefferson

"You (International Bankers) are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out. If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning." Andrew Jackson

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." James Madison

"Whomsoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate." James Garfield

"I am afraid that ordinary citizens will not like to be told that the banks can, and do, create and destroy money. And they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of governments, and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people." - Reginald McKenna, Chairman of the Midland Bank in London.

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen...At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties." John Hylan, New York City Mayor, 1922

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world, no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." Woodrow Wilson

When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes...Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon

 

[queenlives]

What benefits are you referring to again? Because I don't use public transportation, public education, public grants, collect on medicaid, un-employment, welfare, food stamps, or social security, utilize subsidized parks and sports stadiums, get to fish off Coast Guard cutters, visit Mars, libraries, the pool at the community center, attend bingo night at the firehall, etc etc...

Like many white collar professionals- I figured it out myself and pay my own ride and have nothing to apologize for. I pay more than my fair share via income/property/fuel/sales taxes, licenses and fees - in total about 50-55% of total income is the current national average.... so the rest of the lazy people in our country- many of whom aren't even legal citizens... won't have to and can get a free ride. That's my charitable donation.

The un-patriotic reality? When it comes to getting screwed by corrupt government.. I am pretty sure you can find that same benefit on most corners of planet earth [so I can only speculate that perhaps it was the benefits you were referring to.]

Politics is the science of wealth re-distribution. Contrary to the patriotic crap many were taught at the ballpark in high school- America is far from a shining beacon of well run government for the people. It's a bloated albatross.

What was good has been sold-out wholesale... leaving us with a cesspool of liberal special interests and greed. If it were my call the statue of liberty should be knocked down and replaced with a couple of guys worshiping the almighty god.... DOW.

so, i guess the answer to my question is, "nothing".

thx.
hal

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

so, i guess the answer to my question is, "nothing".

thx.
hal

Well, likely a pretty typical result among the motorsports enthusiast crowd- seeing as how none I know of are into politics unless it involves contesting a speeding citation in district court, and helping a lot of girls through college never seems to count. :wink: :biggrin:

 

[tosugrad]

Well, likely a pretty typical result among the motorsports enthusiast crowd- seeing as how none I know of are into politics unless it involves contesting a speeding citation in district court, and helping a lot of girls through college never seems to count. :wink: :biggrin:

LOL :biggrin:

 

[DrVolkl]

Correction---GM got 25 billion dollars to retool to make smaller cars and design hybrids in September, now they want $25 billion more, just to keep from going under.

Actually sounds more like my wife. :smile:

 

[BD]

Yesterday on Fox News, Fred Barns made a very interesting statement.

"The auto industry of this nation is thriving, except Detroit."

Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, etc are making plenty of cars even in today's economy. AND yes, they are offering massive incentives to the entire line of vehicles and still making good profit after 20-30% drop last couple of months.

So what is the problem? UAW!!!

They need to go.

You can't continue to hold a company that is loosing money hostage because the union is part of the problem. The workers of Honda/Toyota plants are making just as much money with same benefits and they are perfectly happy without the union. They turn out better workmanship and products because the employees are happy.

 

[LJSB]

john,

as an ashamed american who refused to vote in this election, i'm curious what you're actually doing to improve the country you're a citizen of while reaping the benefits of belonging to.

hal

 

[eddiensx]

The Airlines, Auto Makers (US) and education are all failing. They are subpar, and inefficient. They all have one thing in common. They are all held hostage by Unions. Unions destroy income, they destroy individuality and are destroying industry in the US.

At one time they were necessary, and if people start losing rights, they will come back, but as of now, they are dinosaurs that need to be done away with.

 

[KooLaid]

Check it out.. I wonder if this is the type of management we have to look forward to in our government?

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=9299280


(For the record I'm not a republican)

Those people are stupid. THey don't realize that taxes are still going ot be taken out for their work! So obviously they're not going to get the full amount. Actually, it just sounds like they've fallen into the new obama tax raise bracket, lol. He's just getting practice.


"Still that's not right. I'm disappointed. I'm glad for the president, but I'm disappointed in this system," said Diane Jefferson, temporary campaign worker.

"It should have been $480. It's $230," said Imani Sankofa.

"They gave us $10 an hour. So we added it. I added up all the hours so it was supposed to be at least $120. All I get is $90," said Charles Martin.

"I worked nine hours a day for 4 days and got paid half of what I should have earned," said Randall Waldon.

 

[KooLaid]

 

[Jimbo]

Funny how that so-called Primer doesn't include anything about the root cause of the problem.

Government intervention into the banking industry to FORCE them to write loans to people not equipped to repay.

For more info read about "Community Reinvestment Act" on WikiPedia or elsewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

 

[Jimbo]

As for Unions...

Don't worry, Union membership will grow in leaps and bounds under the Obama administration.

The Card Check (do away with secret balloting) legislation will force the issue.

Even George McGovern is upset about it !!

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/15/video-mcgovern-on-card-check/


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Then, gobs of businesses formerly not unionized will have the wonderful beauty of the high cost of union labor. Then these companies will be as efficient as competitive as the domestic auto companies.

.