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Run in with an F430

S

soloracer951

Experienced Member
Joined
29 May 2007
Messages
439
Driving on a freeway I noticed a set of lights coming up behind me quickly. I was going 10 over the limit so I slowed down to wait and see what is was. When it got about 5 car lengths back I could tell it was a black Ferrari. He went by and the car was gorgeous. I pulled in behind him and picked up the pace to catch up. He was stuck behind a couple of other cars. When the traffic cleared he nailed it and so did I. I could hear that V8 wail above my engine and smell the exhaust - kind of hard to describe the odor other than to say it was the stuff they should make cologne out of. He was slowly pulling away - not nearly as fast as I thought he would. Makes me think that another 30-50 hp and I would be on par. For the record I'm supercharged running low boost and stock everything. The previous owner dyno'd my car at 295 rwhp. I always find it interesting to see how my cars compare to other performance cars. I pulled a new M3 about the same as this F430 pulled on me.
 
95EagleAWD said:
Then he can't drive as an E46 M3 will rape any stock NSX.
Click to expand...

Having driven both extensively, I would say that "rape" is a massive exaggeration. These cars are very different, but quite competitive in straight line speed. I'd put it down to driver skill.
 
all in gear selection and right rev's...

DRIFTER said:
I have taken a E46 M3 by a car and a half with my stock nsx:wink:
Click to expand...
95EagleAWD said:
Then he can't drive as an E46 M3 will rape any stock NSX.
Click to expand...
... or maybe you can't drive, as an NA1 5psd. NSX will be on par w/ an E46 M3.

I gotta concur w/ swbatte, it really might just come down to driver's skill-level when dealing w/ these similarly performing cars!
 
I do club events with my NA NSX (street legal) and the 5spd 3.0 NSX is 100% DEAD EVEN with the E46 M3, including the Z4 with the M3 motor. This is from 60mph to 140mph I gain nothing and they gain nothing, considering equal track-out speeds. I do pass every one though through technical sections, due to the ability of the nsx's handling. Same goes for the EVO and STI, very similar speeds to 140mph, but after a few technical sections, I get by. But by no means do I "pull" on them. We are talking a second or two per 4.1 mile lap at Road America.

This is equal driver skill, since all camparisons are instructor or assertive levels.
 
swbatte said:
Having driven both extensively, I would say that "rape" is a massive exaggeration. These cars are very different, but quite competitive in straight line speed. I'd put it down to driver skill.
Click to expand...

That's what I said. I've also driven both, the E46 with the 6 speed and the SMG when I worked for BMW and they're much faster than the NSX.

It does come down to driver skill, and if the stock NSX toasted him, then the M3 driver can't drive.
 
Re: all in gear selection and right rev's...

Osiris_x11 said:
... or maybe you can't drive, as an NA1 5psd. NSX will be on par w/ an E46 M3.

I gotta concur w/ swbatte, it really might just come down to driver's skill-level when dealing w/ these similarly performing cars!
Click to expand...

Really, where are you getting that from?

With good drivers, the NA1 NSX is about 5.7 0-60 and 13.7 in the 1/4 mile. The BMW is about 4.8 0-60 and 13.1 in the 1/4 mile.

Now, I've got my NSX to pull a 13.7 @ 101 at 2200 feet, stock, so I'm sure I can drag race.
 
I've seen many varried stats on 1/4 mile times for both cars. A half a second is so short of time that the cars with non-professional drivers are evenly matched depending on which magazine you read.

Even if he could drive, a E46 M3 and NA1 NSX are quite competitive, although the torque of the M3 might make it feel a little quicker off the line. It won't be a slaughter either way.
 
Im very suprised to hear the E46 M3 at 13.1. Id put them no faster than 13.5.

I think that they would pull on a 95 or 96, not on the earlier cars or the later cars. I know that when my NSX was stock I would pull on them down the back straight at Mosport. I wouldnt run away, but I would pull all the way down.

The M3 is a nice car, but its engine is hampered by the rest of the cars lard.
 
A stock NA1 NSX shouldn't put 1.5 car lengths on an M3 though if the M3 was running good or at stock weight. I realize at 295 rwhp my car isn't making the full power potential (I am still on the low boost pulley and stock everything else). However, the comment regarding driving skill is bogus since none of these pulls were from a dig. Not much skill required to step on the loud pedal and keep the RPM's up at speed now is there? I also pulled a WRX STI in the similar way as I did the M3. I think in a straight line highway pull those two cars would be dead even.
 
soloracer951 said:
A stock NA1 NSX shouldn't put 1.5 car lengths on an M3 though if the M3 was running good or at stock weight. I realize at 295 rwhp my car isn't making the full power potential (I am still on the low boost pulley and stock everything else). However, the comment regarding driving skill is bogus since none of these pulls were from a dig. Not much skill required to step on the loud pedal and keep the RPM's up at speed now is there? I also pulled a WRX STI in the similar way as I did the M3. I think in a straight line highway pull those two cars would be dead even.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Reaction times, rpm at launch, wheel spin, shift points & technique....drag racing isn't just put your car in drive and floor it. A driver's skill can account for a second over his less talented competitor easily. And that my friend can be 10 car lengths. Bracket racing is where cars of nearly equal ability are paired against each other and it boils down to the skill of the driver.
 
swbatte said:
Incorrect. Reaction times, rpm at launch, wheel spin, shift points & technique....drag racing isn't just put your car in drive and floor it. A driver's skill can account for a second over his less talented competitor easily. And that my friend can be 10 car lengths. Bracket racing is where cars of nearly equal ability are paired against each other and it boils down to the skill of the driver.
Click to expand...

Please READ what I posted first. I said since these pulls were NOT from a dig the comments regarding driver skill is bogus. 99% of drag racing is getting off the line as you say (reaction time, rpm launch, etc.) But from a 60 mph roll to 130 mph you have maybe 1 gear shift. Not a ton of skill required.
 
swbatte said:
Having driven both extensively, I would say that "rape" is a massive exaggeration. These cars are very different, but quite competitive in straight line speed. I'd put it down to driver skill.
Click to expand...

Having been there done that, I would agree, no idea if the E46 was an auto or not. I edged him out both times.
 
soloracer951 said:
Driving on a freeway I noticed a set of lights coming up behind me quickly. I was going 10 over the limit so I slowed down to wait and see what is was. When it got about 5 car lengths back I could tell it was a black Ferrari. He went by and the car was gorgeous. I pulled in behind him and picked up the pace to catch up. He was stuck behind a couple of other cars. When the traffic cleared he nailed it and so did I. I could hear that V8 wail above my engine and smell the exhaust - kind of hard to describe the odor other than to say it was the stuff they should make cologne out of. He was slowly pulling away - not nearly as fast as I thought he would. Makes me think that another 30-50 hp and I would be on par. For the record I'm supercharged running low boost and stock everything. The previous owner dyno'd my car at 295 rwhp. I always find it interesting to see how my cars compare to other performance cars. I pulled a new M3 about the same as this F430 pulled on me.
Click to expand...

Soloracer heres my feedback, I believe that same F430 was the 1 that rode up on my A S S a couple months ago or so, I don't usually mention it, but since it was brought up in this thread I will.(F430)
It was a black convertible with 2 guys in it, and I seen them smirking like thay were going to to make me look bad, I felt it.

So as I came down from the ramp going under the bridge I cracked the (go-fast) throttle for 3 gears pulling hard (gave him the complete F1 sound from the echo under the bridge), and well lets just say that all he seen of me and my car was the A-S-S end.
I was a A S S on the throttle, I just couldn't help myself lol.
I was the 1 smirking 2 turnoffs later as I spanked him rolling from 2nd gear.I was foresure ahead close to 100 yards(football field) or more by the end of 4th gear, when I decided to relax because I could clearly see he was not going to pass me.I was worried as it looked fast and nice riding up on my tail all of a suddon, its the first one I ever seen up close well in my rear view mirror lol.
Thay finally cought up to me when I was on the turnoff ramp thay passed goin straight with there thumbs up both of them.Least thay had respect.

He was probably in shock all that $ for a ferrari and a Honda gave him a redbum (from a spanking:biggrin: ).No 1 has even come close to showing me their tailights, and many many walking around with a RedBum!. eg.. SC vette, SC NSX(wont mention who), SL55 amg kompressor v8, I could go on but I wont.
NSX under boost is insane period.
Power to weight ratio is immensely increased.

1 cool thing I have noticed is that most yellow NSX's I see here are boosted :biggrin: weather it be Turbo which is the way to go in my opinion now, or Supercharged which was more readily available before turbos became stable on this car.
If you want this car to feel like it should a upgrade is needed, as we all know the N/A NSX is somewhat underpowered. IMO
Each to his own, everyone has different ideas modding a car or not.
My recommendation Lovefab Turbo of course.Very few cars will be a challenge anymore.
You get what you pay for so do your homework.
Thay have some new system tweaked out going to be available from SOS and Lovefab.com very soon that will have no turbo lag whatsoever and runs smooth and flawless in testing.Something to look into if considering boost.Will try to find the thread on this, I believe its in the Forced Induction area.

Cheers
Maximumyield
 
Wow, never knew the M3 was like that. I'm actually shopping around for an smg as a daily driver (aka winter beater).
 
Sweet Zak, you have PM!:wink:
 
Maximumyield: Sounds like you had a nice run but it was a different car than the one I ran with. The F430 I was against was a coupe and not a convertible. It was being driven by a middle aged italian looking gentleman. He also gave me a wave. I know what you mean about the Lovefab turbo set up - seeing your car and watching the online video's have me really thinking about swapping the CTSC. The only worry I have is longevity with a stock engine.
 
E46 M3: 283whp
Your S/C NSX: 295whp
Stock NSX: 230-240whp...
Stock F430: 400-420whp

W/my experience tracking all of the above, in a straight line (who cares about straight line?) a stock F430 would walk a 300whp NSX, even 350whp i'd still probably give it to the F430. A stock NSX is pretty close to an E46 M3, but the E46 still has the upper hand in a straight line, and I can see how your S/C M3 would be a little quicker than the M3...

On a track (and even moreso on the street) you have so many variences in driver skill, shifting ability, tire compounds etc... that just one experience should be taken with a grain of salt. I passed a Diablo, Viper, Gallardo, F430, and I can go on and on, on a track with a stock hp miata... Dosn't mean anything or should be used as a measure atall...

For what the M3 delivers/offers, its a very impressive car with a lot of power. F430 is a dream to drive/track - period. NSX is also a great car to track, but needs 400whp...:biggrin:
 
soloracer951 said:
Maximumyield: The only worry I have is longevity with a stock engine.
Click to expand...

Yes I would agree it being a concern, heres a few reads for ya below, maybe it will make u a little more confident.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93537

But I can say Lovefab has done a car with I think over 130,000 miles stock and the guy is happy with it, no issues so far, I heard this car looks like 130,000 on it too.
Also read the Craig Cathay posts too

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96310

http://speedvine.com/turbo-nsx-far-from-japanese-roots/

I believe he has 132,000+miles on a stock motor too pushing race fuel and 14.5psi at the track pulling a 10.45 on the 1/4 mile go figure, 1 of the fastest NSX's forsure and its completely stock except for a turbo.I believe these guys run around 8 psi to 10 for the street.
Posted from Craig, I think we are about to the limits of the 67mm turbo. We have been pushing the stock motor with my car, just to see what it will handle. So far there have been no problems, but with a poor tune you won't make it past 400rwhp.
The higher boost and power numbers are all done on 113 octane fuel.
Craig

P.S. I forgot to post it, but we are at 614rwhp now.

have a look at this amazing launch, but plug your ears lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjFOAoSj8-0

1 thing that comes to my mind is, the motor only is under heavy load when the turbo is on at high rpm's, If I do not go over say 4000rpm the car feels like a normal car almost.So it is not wearing the motor anymore than the SC or N/A engine.IMO

This is why I am not afraid to boost my car to 13psi or 14 psi next spring, now that I have got used to it and it is broken in.I believe i am at only 10psi, I can only imagine what it will be like.
But like I said u only are under boost for brief periods.Basically if I have say 510whp @ 8000 rpm I would have this same 510hp from more boost 13psi at say 6800rpm now, and more hp going to to 8000rpm now, like 550hp.
My belief again is less rpm more hp, may be easier on the car possibly revving less.Although if you are revving at 8000rpm all the time with boost too high, it can be danger on the engine if you are not carefull.
Also for the average amount of wear your NSX receives in a year is minimal, due to the average person only putting on say 3k to 5k miles per year.
Maybe useing boost 10% of this time, so only 500miles of abnormal abuse.

There are a few SC threads of the motors blowing due to higher intake temps and causing the engine to lean at hi rpms.The turbos run quite abit cooler intake temps, which is safer.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95448

I think when its time, its time for anyone.A motor can give when it feels, now if u are under boost and it granades, I can understand.But no reports of this happening to my knowledge.You may get 100,000miles more with a turbo u may only get 500 miles more, no 1 can know how reliable it will be on a stock motor as there are no reports of any blowing up.

I am so amazed on these cars running boost 600whp on a stock motor.Craig has a video too at the track and looks like the front wheels are off the ground.The music is horrible on this clip but the car is crazy fast, for a stock nsx+turbo.

Shows the NSX is definately up to the task.
Also consider Cody from lovefab will help you out for service as much as he can.U can get new maps sent via email after doing several logs on to the cars running condition, and u can change the boost via the AEMS computer.

Here is a video (many have seen I am sure)of a Lovefab turbo 1st + 2nd gear pushing 400rwhp on a stock engine with 130,000+ miles on it.I also heard the guys drives it real hard mostly.
This NSX made 400.7hp/320tq at 8psi to the rear wheels, on a Mustang dyno. The factory 8,000RPM redline was retained; using the AEM EMS. So it's actually closer to 450-500hp at the crank. This car is using a base PT67 turbo along with custom exhaust and DC headers that are included in the Lovefab turbo kit.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q2dTYqWl7jI

One more note I think to say is also if you add a turbo to a stock NSX u can have some time to save and think about a future engine build while getting used to boost and haveing fun, and if u were running say 400whp on stock engine and rebuild in a yr or 2 and go forged pistons and sleeved block ect. basically a forced induction stage 2 kit, than u could boost the car to more potential after and allready have the parts to go to 750rwhp with a few buttons on the pc.If u dare to run that much.The supercharger is very limited(but maybe enough for many), and it seems boy's always want more.


Maximumyield
 
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