Track Alignment

NSXLuvr · 21 February 2006

Just getting my car ready for DE's. First DE is in 2 weeks.

My NSX is mainly driven 30 - 40 miles in a week, and I usually do 5 DE events every year. So I was thinking of going with a more track orientated alignment.

My Susp. mods are: NSX Type R suspension, Type R chassis enforment bars, Dali Street/Track sway bars at full stiff in front, middle hole in the rears, Non compliance toe links.

I was goint to go with OEM(93+) toe settings and -1.0 chamber in the front. -1.5 chamber in the rears. what do you guys think. Should I go with -2.0 in the rears. What are you guys running?

p.s. I did a search and found plenty of info, but I didn't see a dedicated thread on aligment settings.

Larry Bastanza · 21 February 2006

The main consideration, IMO, is the tires. So what do you have

??

Regards,
LarryB

NSXLuvr · 21 February 2006

DORK BUTT:biggrin:

I am going to get a set of RA1's for track use. still trying to figure out sizes for 17/18's

RP-Motorsports · 21 February 2006

Well the best way to go with RA1's is 17/17 (cheaper tires, and less weight)

235-40-17 (8.0" rim) +43mm net offset and 275-40-17 (+35 to +45 range)

So with a 18" rear you need 275-35-18 (9.0 to 11.0" rim)

2slow2speed · 21 February 2006

NSXLuvr said:
Just getting my car ready for DE's. First DE is in 2 weeks.

My NSX is mainly driven 30 - 40 miles in a week, and I usually do 5 DE events every year. So I was thinking of going with a more track orientated alignment.

My Susp. mods are: NSX Type R suspension, Type R chassis enforment bars, Dali Street/Track sway bars at full stiff in front, middle hole in the rears, Non compliance toe links.

I was goint to go with OEM(93+) toe settings and -1.0 chamber in the front. -1.5 chamber in the rears. what do you guys think. Should I go with -2.0 in the rears. What are you guys running?

p.s. I did a search and found plenty of info, but I didn't see a dedicated thread on aligment settings.

Hey Ritesh,

You probably still have the alignment specs of my NSX from my PM to you, I forgot to mention that I've been running the NSX with 0 degrees of rear toe ever since I got the non-compiance toe-links and bushings installed @SOS last year.

Ken

Larry Bastanza · 21 February 2006

I agree with relaxing the toe settings all the way around, front and rear. For those tires I would add negative camber as the suspension permits. Track tires love negative camber, the more the better, but it also depends on your driving abililty. If you are fast enough to get the tires up to temp and push the car hard, you want the most negative you can get. I would also always use a pyrometer to test.

HTH,
LarryB

Hrant · 21 February 2006

Curious, why would you reduce toe? I have heard Shad say the same thing re the rear toe with non-compliant toe links. But with the Type R bars and stiff front sway bars, such set is creating more understeer - at least in my car (pretty much the same deal except for Bilstein instead of Type R suspension). Hence a bit more toe out in the front would help in with the turn in, and a bit more toe-in at the rear should help with throttle steer no? Or is this based on the specif needs to run the RA1 at peak performance?

I agree with the more camber though. Can't get more than 2 in the rears and front is at best just shy of 2.

titaniumdave · 21 February 2006

I am running similar set up and after a couple of years of messing around I have settled on:

Front;
Caster 8 degrees
Camber -2 degrees
Toe out 0.1 degree

Rear;
Camber -2.6 degrees
Toe in 0.1 degree

I found the RA-1 doesn't bite well with less than 2 degrees of camber, I would have more on the front but I am out of adjustment(for now). I run this alignment all the time, the limited toe makes the car very stable under hard braking and makes the street tires last. The down side is the 'truck grooves' on the freeway can grab the car pretty good.

For tire size, 235-40-17 and 275-35-18, on 8" and 10" wheels have worked very well for me!

Hrant · 22 February 2006

Dave, I know Ken has a big wing and that might explain why he is or can run minimum toe in without a SC. What about you, oem wing? I know you have a SC, and your tires are pretty wide so the grip is there but with that power no loosness in the back with -0.1 toe (-2.5mm)?

titaniumdave · 22 February 2006

Hrant said:
Dave, I know Ken has a big wing and that might explain why he is or can run minimum toe in without a SC. What about you, oem wing? I know you have a SC, and your tires are pretty wide so the grip is there but with that power no looseness in the back with -0.1 toe (-2.5mm)?

I believe the toe has the most effect on turn in, once the car has taken a set in the corner there is very little net effect. I have gone back to a stock rear sway bar on my car this fall to get more bite on the back end, but I have been running these alignment numbers for the last 2 seasons. I must admit I like to drive pretty 'loose' in the corners with good bit of slip angle so that may have some effect on how I like the car set up...

Stock wing in the back. Rigid bushings and toe links.

mystican · 23 February 2006

remember the NSX squats under acceleration so toe will dynamically change regardless of non-compliance...I would still recommend some "toe in" for the rear...you want to avoid snap oversteer...I have seen it happen and it can get very ugly...

Andrie Hartanto · 23 February 2006

Depending on tires we change the alignment a bit. For RA1 I run

Front
Caster: 10 degree
Camber: -3 degree
Toe: -.16" (total Toe)

Rear:
Camber: -2.8 degree
Toe: +.08 (total toe) with non compliace bushing and toe link.

NSXLuvr · 23 February 2006

Thanks guys,

I talked(PMed) to Larry, and looked up Ken's alignment. Since this will be my first time with RA1's. I have decided to start at a good baseline and see how it goes.

My plans:
1. Loosen front sway bar to middle hole.
2. Reduce front and rear toe to 1/2 on 93 specs.
3. Front Camber of -1.0. Rear -2.0.
4. Caster - unchanged.
5. Get a pyrometer(thanks Larry:smile: )

See how it goes and go from there.

titaniumdave · 23 February 2006

NSXLuvr said:
Thanks guys,

I talked(PMed) to Larry, and looked up Ken's alignment. Since this will be my first time with RA1's. I have decided to start at a good baseline and see how it goes.

My plans:
1. Loosen front sway bar to middle hole.
2. Reduce front and rear toe to 1/2 on 93 specs.
3. Front Camber of -1.0. Rear -2.0.
4. Caster - unchanged.
5. Get a pyrometer(thanks Larry:smile: )

See how it goes and go from there.

I would run more camber on the front, at least 1.5 degrees if not 2, and keep the front sway as stiff as it will go(short arms), balance with the rear sway. Only my opnion, have fun what ever you do and report back on how it all works:wink:

VBNSX · 24 February 2006

just kinda curious...

I only drive my nsx for track events... considering getting some RA1's also.. how many miles/heat cycles do you generally get out of them??

thanks,
x

titaniumdave · 24 February 2006

VBNSX said:
just kinda curious...

I only drive my nsx for track events... considering getting some RA1's also.. how many miles/heat cycles do you generally get out of them??

thanks,
x

With the RA-1, heat cycles don't seem to matter, drive them till they cord...1200-2000 miles depending on how much you like to hang the rear end out:biggrin:

ryneen · 5 October 2006

I was hoping to read this post and have a better understanding as to what alignment I should get for my '91 NSX. After reading, I'm still not sure what to do. The NSX is my weekend car as well as a track car. Here are my details:

Driving experience: Many track days. Comfortable and fairly quick in the advanced run group.

Setup:
-RA1's
-Non compliance rear beam, bushings and toe links
-Front non compliance clamp
-Type R shocks
-Type R front upper and lower chassis bar
-Aftermarket rear strut bar over motor
-Stock front and rear swaybars

Please see attached photo's of my rear tire (right side). This tire has about 5k miles driven on it since the last track event and therefore represents highway mileage. It appears I need more camber since the outside is worn more than the inside. However, I'd like to know what a good track setup is that is still somewhat streetable. I saw Andrie's and TitaniumDave's alignment setups. Can anyone help confirm if either of these are ideal alignment setups for my situation? How about you Ken? You know my driving style a bit. Any thoughts?

VBNSX · 5 October 2006

Personally, I run an almost completely identical alignment as andrie... (only exception is the rear toe... I like a little more in... (not by much though)...

I'm just like you though... track time with some street miles.... definitely get more camber.. what is your current alignment??

x

ryneen · 6 October 2006

Andrie Hartanto said:
Depending on tires we change the alignment a bit. For RA1 I run

Front
Caster: 10 degree
Camber: -3 degree
Toe: -.16" (total Toe)

Rear:
Camber: -2.8 degree
Toe: +.08 (total toe) with non compliace bushing and toe link.

VBNSX mentioned that he runs a similar alignment setting as Andrie's. I have a few questions about Andrie's setup:

1) Is Caster easy to adjust or do I need to order parts before taking it to my alignment shop?
2) Is it possilble to get Andrie's -3 front and -2.8 rear camber with a stock '91 suspension or do I need to order a camber kit?
3) Is Andrie's setup streetable or is it going to severely eat through tires on the street? If it's not streetable, what small tweaks should be made to have a good track/street comprimise?
4) What sway bars (front and rear) and setting is recommended. I'm currently running stock front and rear.

Thanks,
Ryan

PS I'm entering the SuperStreet/NASA Time Attack qualifier next weekend and want to get my alignment dialed ASAP. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

VBNSX · 6 October 2006

ryneen said:
VBNSX mentioned that he runs a similar alignment setting as Andrie's. I have a few questions about Andrie's setup:

1) Is Caster easy to adjust or do I need to order parts before taking it to my alignment shop?
2) Is it possilble to get Andrie's -3 front and -2.8 rear camber with a stock '91 suspension or do I need to order a camber kit?
3) Is Andrie's setup streetable or is it going to severely eat through tires on the street? If it's not streetable, what small tweaks should be made to have a good track/street comprimise?
4) What sway bars (front and rear) and setting is recommended. I'm currently running stock front and rear.

Thanks,
Ryan

PS I'm entering the SuperStreet/NASA Time Attack qualifier next weekend and want to get my alignment dialed ASAP. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1... easy to adjust but you need to something to see what you set it at... most people just go max
2... No... most people lower their cars to get those degrees.. and 'usually' the best you can get on a real low car in the rear is -3 while for the front the best you'll get is -2 without the camber bushings from comptech:
http://www.comptechusa.com/store/160030.html
3... Depends... how often do you drive on the street... i do 'drive' to the track but.. honestly.. that's about it... that's why i run such a severe alignment.
4... Get some sort of sway bars and play with the settings... each person drives a little different from the other.. HOWEVER... the most common thing for most people is to stiffen the front and soften the rear (soften = the furthest holes if I remember correctly)... then there are some of us (me included) who just flatout remove the rear sway..

good luck with the time trials...

x

Pccw · 8 October 2006

titaniumdave said:
For tire size, 235-40-17 and 275-35-18, on 8" and 10" wheels have worked very well for me!

isnt 235-40-17 in the front too wide? will the tires rub the fender liner during full lock turns?

also how much camber can the car have with just aftermarket coilover and sway bars?

ryneen · 8 October 2006

I run 235/40/17 on the fronts and 275/40/17 on the rears. They do rub at full lock when parking, but they are perfectly fine for driving.

titaniumdave · 10 October 2006

Pccw said:
isnt 235-40-17 in the front too wide? will the tires rub the fender liner during full lock turns?

also how much camber can the car have with just aftermarket coilover and sway bars?

With -2 degrees of camber on the front I clear even at lock. They will hit on Comptech front compliance clamps, but the ones I make will clear. I have Konis with Eibach springs, lowered about 30 mm and -2 degrees is all the camber I can get out ot the front, rear will go to about -2.8 degrees. Sway bars should have no effect on the camber adjustment.

PaulL · 10 October 2006

ryneen said:
It appears I need more camber since the outside is worn more than the inside.

That wear is likely more due to large toe-in on the the rear tires than not enough camber, although they do work together to some extent.

ryneen · 9 November 2006

Andrie Hartanto said:
Depending on tires we change the alignment a bit. For RA1 I run

Front
Caster: 10 degree
Camber: -3 degree
Toe: -.16" (total Toe)

Rear:
Camber: -2.8 degree
Toe: +.08 (total toe) with non compliace bushing and toe link.

Andrie,
I'd like to confirm your toe settings. The decimal point has confused me.
Does -.16" mean -1/16"
Does +.08 mean +1/8"
I want to make sure and give the right info to my alignment person today.
Thanks for clarification,
Ryan

Track Alignment

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