Exactly my point. Unfortunately our system of 'justice' for matters like this is really not a deterrent at all to prevent future acts from these people.
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WTF?? why do people hate?
- Thread starter smoore
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Exactly my point. Unfortunately our system of 'justice' for matters like this is really not a deterrent at all to prevent future acts from these people.
lol not as much as homes. :biggrin:
also instead of sticking the $ in the home at 3-5% ROI (return on investment) right now, i can personally invest my funds and get a 10-20% ROI.
i wish i got on the train 3 years ago.... some lady i know got a house for 500K and now its about a cool mill :tongue:
how sweet it is for her. im green and blue with envy.
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ozone....I seriously hope you do not think I was cutting down the M3, and understood what I really meant about how the general public views the two differently. I had one too, and sometimes flying at a lower profile was nice. I am guessing that the Laguna Seca Blue one in your avatar is your car. Nice choice.
No offense taken. I know what you meant. Does having a higher profile car lend it more likely to be vandalized? I have no idea why ppl would key a Ferrari, Lambo, NSX...it's like destroying a piece of art.
its about character... you can hate or you can admire. :smile:
And that is what it all boils down to!!!!!!
Ski_Banker
Suspended
Yeah the hardware here is pretty absurd. Why'd you leave, anyway?
BTW, I THINK, but am not sure, there is a 91-93 NSX lurking around West Ave somewhere. My competition! :tongue: Have seen it a (red, bone stock) few times. I passed him with a thumbs up going mach 2 on 395 a few months ago. :smile:
Your financial analysis is wrong. The leverage inherent in owning a home (through a mortgage) would juice your ROI by a factor of at least 5 times (with a standard 80% LTV mortgage) and could be as high as infinity (if you have 100% financing you have $0 invested).
This is not to say that with your situation owning a home is the better option than renting (there are many other things that come into play to determine that), but owning a home is a much better ROI (even at the 3% return with no leverage) than your car collection.
If you want the cars then that is certainly your perogative, but don't rationalize it in your head that you they are a wise investment which you are in effect doing by choosing to own expensive cars rather than owning a home.
ehhhh, OK. Whatever makes you feel better about your decisions. Btw, that example YOU gave shows a 100% ROI.
Only assuming she had no mortgage. With a traditional mortgage of 80% LTV ($400k), her return would be 1000%.
100% financing..... you gota be kidding right?? with an adjustable short term morgage too boot?
you dont get something for nothing.
i dont have to worry about property tax at 1/2% of 600,000-1 million ( you cant touch anything for under 600K in cali ). Also no maintaince, upkeep, cutting the lawn, high energy costs to heat a house + the rediculous morgage payment. 1/2 of the total goes in to the pocket of the bank.
Dont look at the monthly rates. Thats the lube before the rape. Look at what you pay over the life of your loan. If you borrow 500,000$ over 30 years at a fixed rate of 6.75% your ACTURALLY going to pay over 960,000$ ( this is with a 10% DOWN!... or was it 20%? its one of these 2 figures. If you got 0% down... your well beyond 2X the purchase price. ) for the loan... which means you just about bought your housee TWICE. I dont think so! with a reasonable 7% loan on 30 years at 500K, your looking at about 2500-3000$ a month depending on credit, once again, for the first 20 years what you pay does not even go toward your principle (barely). My rent is 1300, i pay that easily and dont really mind that i dont build equity. In not paying for any of the upkeep and taxes of ownership. If i put an extra 1500 a month in the bank, in 30 years i'll have 500K sitting there + i can enjoy my cars in the mean time and dont have to worry about the preasures of making payment and slaving away for the bank... i can easily put away 1.5K a month thus i'll get there must faster and also enjoy the cars in the mean time. This makes more sense to me.... Also if i put the money in a CD account at lets say 5%. at 500k that nets me over $25,000 a year.... WHICH Would PAY for my rent and than SOME.... so that means... i'll be living at a nice place for FREE and get paid 1000+ dollars a month to live there.... WHY Bother BUYING?!?!?! its higher if you can invest corretly. Not tooo shabby.
If you have cash, you have options. If you have a house with a morage, you dont got much. the saying goes " money talks " if you have all your money tied up in your house, you aint speaking too loud. besides, everyone has a house, not every one has cash. If you see a great business that generates good cash flow... if you have cash in the bank, you can purchase it and make $. If you have a house? with your 3000$ a month in morgage and your slaving away just to save up for that properity tax.... your out of luck my friend. Even if the business is just so awesome that you want to sell your house and purchase it, your looking at month or two to sell it in an average market + broker fees and 30 days to clear escrow.. but that time, someone like me would have already purchased the business leaving you thinking what if......
if you take equity out of your house.. its going to take time. What if you want to have a toy or two? maybe drive that ferrari or lambo?... take equity out of your house?.... lol tack on a few more years and 10s of thousands in interest charges! you cant even play with your toy with out paying a premium.
So the opertunity cost of owning a house is not so appealing if you really think about it. Dont buy into the whole pride of ownership crap, its over rated and it under delivers in performance and ROI. This is the lame duck way of thinking. The realitors and the bankers would love to feed you that story since the bank is getting you to pay for the house twice and the broker gets to take your money when you buy and take it again when you sell... lol if i was a banker or a broker, i would be sing high prases for ownership. Think like a common man and you'll recieve common things. Out think and out perform thats the key.
you can build equity in your bank, or you can build it FOR your bank.
work for the bank for 30 years... or enjoy nice cars for 30 years and buy your house too... hum.....
ofcourse im over looking properity appreciation but i also invest on the side for that 10-20%. for the sake of argument, lets say the appreciation of the house is 10-20% ( which it is far from in todays markets ) so everything brakes even there.
Im waiting for all the idiots doing the 100% financing to eat their idiocy and default. I'll just liquidate my car collection when i need to and get money out and take advantage. if it was not for all the stubid morgage programs like the 100% and 110% loans we would not be in such a state of housing hype. Also i have back up funds in the bank for a down payment... i dont spend every cent i got on cars.. that would be just silly.
yes yes, cars is not a liquid asset.... yes it is if you sell it at below market value. If i wanted to sell both my nsx at 10K each and my ferrari at 50-60k.... im pretty sure ill sell them in 1-2 hours.
Im not a big fan of leverage. My mother taught be better than to buy stuff i cant afford. I play with in my means. Never took out a loan in my life and im not a fan of give some one else my hard earned money. compounded interest is just no no in my books.
yes the lady that purchased the house was a 100% return on investment. 3 years ago. im 23. still got lots of time left to get there. when i was 20, the housing hype started. I didnt have anything to my name and a house of not with in my means.
My analysis is correct. it might be wrong when your in the box, but when your out side..... it looks very right. Im in the black, i have equity in the bank, i dont have a penny worth of loans, no visa, no morage, no car loans, I have very nice cars paid for by my blood and sweat ( 3 years and not no vacation yet or in sight), i have a great business that pays the bills and im working harder everyday to out perform so i dont have to worry when im older and i can enjoy the good things when im young and able.
btw, go find out what your paying for the life time of YOUR home.
down payment + (monthly payment x 12 x # of years ) = WOW your paying too much. :biggrin:
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Hahahaha... I'll leave this one for "Ski_Banker"! :wink:
I finance ALL of my vehicles. My money is much better spent on investments. I spend $50k on a car.... I have a car. I put $5k down on a car and use the other $45k to buy property... I can turn it into 10x's that in less than 90 days...
I'm not saying paying all cash wouldn't be beneficial for anyone... but it's not always the best route...
um.... did you even ready my posting? go back and read it again.
i didnt say invest and cars and muturally exclusive. I didnt say that once i buy a car, i got diddly squwat over to invest. thats not what i said. I can buy a car and still have the $ TO invest. Investment before car... how did you think i got to where i am with out self control?
The difference is i can buy a ferrari and still have 45K left in the bank to invest.
its not that i run out of money once i buy a car.... why does everyone think its this OR that.... its both balls rolling at the same time, acturally more balls rolling the better.
when something comes up, i cover it with whats in the bank, then sell the car if i need to or if i get bored. Even if i sell the car at a loss i'll still gain it back in the investment so im still up....:biggrin:
how do you turn 45K to 10X that in 90 days in todays market? what do you invest in? i want in. I got 45K sitting here waiting for you answer.
cash is always the best route if you have enough. Leverage is for those who dont have enough but want more than what they have worked for.
yes get a banker "Ski_Banker" to tell me how i can pay him interest so i can make money. i really dont need to beg, since i have the money already to invest. i want in on that 45K X 10X thing. better be legal
we are getting off topic btw. i still got 2 cars with paint thinner on them hahaha
i didnt say invest and cars and muturally exclusive. I didnt say that once i buy a car, i got diddly squwat over to invest. thats not what i said. I can buy a car and still have the $ TO invest. Investment before car... how did you think i got to where i am with out self control?
The difference is i can buy a ferrari and still have 45K left in the bank to invest.
its not that i run out of money once i buy a car.... why does everyone think its this OR that.... its both balls rolling at the same time, acturally more balls rolling the better.
when something comes up, i cover it with whats in the bank, then sell the car if i need to or if i get bored. Even if i sell the car at a loss i'll still gain it back in the investment so im still up....:biggrin:
how do you turn 45K to 10X that in 90 days in todays market? what do you invest in? i want in. I got 45K sitting here waiting for you answer.
cash is always the best route if you have enough. Leverage is for those who dont have enough but want more than what they have worked for.
yes get a banker "Ski_Banker" to tell me how i can pay him interest so i can make money. i really dont need to beg, since i have the money already to invest.
i want in on that 45K X 10X thing. better be legal we are getting off topic btw. i still got 2 cars with paint thinner on them hahaha
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- Joined
- 20 May 2006
- Messages
- 327
Hahahaha... I'll leave this one for "Ski_Banker"! :wink:
I finance ALL of my vehicles. My money is much better spent on investments. I spend $50k on a car.... I have a car. I put $5k down on a car and use the other $45k to buy property... I can turn it into 10x's that in less than 90 days...
I'm not saying paying all cash wouldn't be beneficial for anyone... but it's not always the best route...
That's right...Leaverage the bank's money. OPM! Other Peoples Money!
Ski_Banker
Suspended
lol nice video
OPM. yes i read rich dad poor dad too. :tongue:
OPM if used correct is bliss. Most people dont use it correctly and get leveraged instead of using the leverage. I dont see how buying a house is OPM for leverage. If you can flip it in 90 days for 40K profit but market is not there right now. Houses are stacking up. Wait till next Christmas when the sellers can no longer hold their ground... it will be WOOWHOO for buyers.
If its a business investment and solid, OPM works well. If i find deals that require OPM than im not against it but so far nothing i cant handle.
Also with OPM there is greater risk. If you can leverage is 10x, your possable risk is also 10x. no free lunch. So 45K of risk turned out to be 450K or risk. if things go badly, your in the hole for 450K which is way above and beyond your means to repay... then your in debt for life.
I rather lose the whole 45K and walk away with nothing than be in the hole via wonderful leverage for 450K.
45k i can shrug off easy. 450K... lol i'll be losing sleep over that.
leverage is a 2 side blade. im a total cluts, one sided is already a handful. :tongue:
OPM. yes i read rich dad poor dad too. :tongue:
OPM if used correct is bliss. Most people dont use it correctly and get leveraged instead of using the leverage. I dont see how buying a house is OPM for leverage. If you can flip it in 90 days for 40K profit but market is not there right now. Houses are stacking up. Wait till next Christmas when the sellers can no longer hold their ground... it will be WOOWHOO for buyers.
If its a business investment and solid, OPM works well. If i find deals that require OPM than im not against it but so far nothing i cant handle.
Also with OPM there is greater risk. If you can leverage is 10x, your possable risk is also 10x. no free lunch. So 45K of risk turned out to be 450K or risk. if things go badly, your in the hole for 450K which is way above and beyond your means to repay... then your in debt for life.
I rather lose the whole 45K and walk away with nothing than be in the hole via wonderful leverage for 450K.
45k i can shrug off easy. 450K... lol i'll be losing sleep over that.
leverage is a 2 side blade. im a total cluts, one sided is already a handful. :tongue:
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"when something comes up, i cover it with whats in the bank, then sell the car if i need to or if i get bored. Even if i sell the car at a loss i'll still gain it back in the investment so im still up....:biggrin:"
You must not have much if you need to sell your toys at a loss for investments.
"how do you turn 45K to 10X that in 90 days in todays market? what do you invest in? i want in. I got 45K sitting here waiting for you answer."
I want in on that type of return as well. As long as it isn't a ponzi scheme I'll get you a 7 figure amount this week so you can turn it into an 8 figure amount. :biggrin:
"cash is always the best route if you have enough. Leverage is for those who dont have enough but want more than what they have worked for."
What a ridiculous and narrow minded statement
I need $1.3 mill next week to make a deal happen on a 12 unit bldg. Oh and maybe another $500k after that for some hard money loans. Not understanding finance annoys me and I believe that the ones who understand and use it successfully find your post amusing as the leverage allows many to acquire high standards of living (6 & 7 figure paydays). I also understand how to leverage my time so I can read Prime and watch TV
im not at the point where i am able to play with leverage. how much leverage where you utilizing at 23? well i dont know how old you are. if your 23 than that would make me look pretty stubid and i would have a lot to learn from you, but if your older.... i still got a lot to learn also.
Quit nit picking about the increase in cost of living, :tongue: we are all aware of it. even at 25000 a year. im still living off interest, if course there is the 2-3% loss due to inflation if you want to nit pick on that too... and also bank fees at 23$ a month.
putting away 1500 a month is childs play. thats just a base example. if i put away 6K a month, i could definitly live off interest and also have enough for your 1.3 million purchase with out leverage. 2.1 million in 30 years at 6K not counting compounded interest during the 30 years or gains on investments. it would net met a nice 10K a month for doing nothing @ 4% returns in a CD account. im sure that will pay for the rent.
1.3 million for a 12 unit building hun? out here you can get a 4000 sqft single unit house.
6-7 figure pay days would be pretty sweet. :biggrin:
i got lots of time for me to figure this out :smile: i would appreciate help / tips from the big guns. always willing to learn!
pm me
btw anyone want a very clean 355 23K on the clock, black on black. i got a 360 lined up.
Quit nit picking about the increase in cost of living, :tongue: we are all aware of it. even at 25000 a year. im still living off interest, if course there is the 2-3% loss due to inflation if you want to nit pick on that too... and also bank fees at 23$ a month.
putting away 1500 a month is childs play. thats just a base example. if i put away 6K a month, i could definitly live off interest and also have enough for your 1.3 million purchase with out leverage. 2.1 million in 30 years at 6K not counting compounded interest during the 30 years or gains on investments. it would net met a nice 10K a month for doing nothing @ 4% returns in a CD account. im sure that will pay for the rent.
1.3 million for a 12 unit building hun? out here you can get a 4000 sqft single unit house.
6-7 figure pay days would be pretty sweet. :biggrin:
i got lots of time for me to figure this out :smile: i would appreciate help / tips from the big guns. always willing to learn!
pm me
btw anyone want a very clean 355 23K on the clock, black on black. i got a 360 lined up.
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I'm not trying to offend you, but you really do not know anything about finance and investing. You are destroying a whole lot of capital by buying exotic sports cars, while at the same time saying you are saving a lot of money because you're not paying a mortgage. It is mind boggling.
A few quick points I wanted to clarify. First, I wasn't recommending 100% financing, just pointing out how a mortgage leverages you and dramatically influences the 3-5% ROI that you quoted in your initial post. I'm actually not even advocating that you buy a home... renting may be the best option for you. What I AM sure of is that by spending the money you are "saving" by not having a mortgage on Ferraris and sports cars is about the worst "investment" that you can make.
If you are making a conscious decision to consume rather than invest, as most of us do prior to buying an expensive depreciating sports car, then that is fine. But do not fool yourself into thinking you are optimizing your ROI by buying Ferraris instead of a house. In fact, you are likely doing the opposite.
A few quick points I wanted to clarify. First, I wasn't recommending 100% financing, just pointing out how a mortgage leverages you and dramatically influences the 3-5% ROI that you quoted in your initial post. I'm actually not even advocating that you buy a home... renting may be the best option for you. What I AM sure of is that by spending the money you are "saving" by not having a mortgage on Ferraris and sports cars is about the worst "investment" that you can make.
If you are making a conscious decision to consume rather than invest, as most of us do prior to buying an expensive depreciating sports car, then that is fine. But do not fool yourself into thinking you are optimizing your ROI by buying Ferraris instead of a house. In fact, you are likely doing the opposite.
i have the car. once i spend the money on the car its not like its gone up in smoke :tongue:
its still there. I got insurance on it. i aint paying dealer prices so the $ is still there. I wont lose when i sell it.... same thing as sitting in the bank excpet with a 100$ deductable :smile:
the ferrari is not a investment. you didnt read the post did you? its extra money i have sitting around not invested. I have other investments.... im not sure how you missed ALL of that. Some people have selective hearing/reading. Just see what you want to see hun?
My ferrari is NOT an investment. its PURELY for my own enjoyment. I do enjoy it very very very very very much. I enjoy it so much that im planning to get a 360 :tongue: Go read my post again before posting. :smile:
buying a house is not for me right now. Im not buying at a peak market.. when the stuff hits the fan, you bet i'll be in. im not sure how have buying a house twice and only getting one house + all the upkeep & property tax = good investment.
just go and read my post again. dont worry, im not offended easily. constructive buddy bashing is good for growth.
its still there. I got insurance on it. i aint paying dealer prices so the $ is still there. I wont lose when i sell it.... same thing as sitting in the bank excpet with a 100$ deductable :smile:
the ferrari is not a investment. you didnt read the post did you? its extra money i have sitting around not invested. I have other investments.... im not sure how you missed ALL of that. Some people have selective hearing/reading. Just see what you want to see hun?
My ferrari is NOT an investment. its PURELY for my own enjoyment. I do enjoy it very very very very very much. I enjoy it so much that im planning to get a 360 :tongue: Go read my post again before posting. :smile:
buying a house is not for me right now. Im not buying at a peak market.. when the stuff hits the fan, you bet i'll be in. im not sure how have buying a house twice and only getting one house + all the upkeep & property tax = good investment.
just go and read my post again. dont worry, im not offended easily. constructive buddy bashing is good for growth.
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I started leveraging my time when I quit my JOB and started working for myself. I own a Real Estate Investment Company here in Southern California. I was working for the second highest paid Police Dept in ALL of the nation, and in the year that I quit and started my own business i literally made almost 10xs my base salary. I now work from my home office, I get up at 7:30am, go to the gym, come home and shower, play with my kids, and start in the office around 10am. Then I usually call it quits at about 3pm and play with my kids some more. I drive nice cars, own 30+ properties across the US, have a beautiful home in CA (which BTW is 100% financed), and can take off any day I want, because I work for myself. :biggrin:
I buy/sell luxury homes ($1mil up to about $20mil) across the united states! You want an example?
I just opened escrow on a property in FL. In escrow at $3.2mil with a CURRENT appraisal at $6mil. Deposit (not a down payment, but a REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT) of $50k. 100% financed with a dissolvable seller carryback of $2.8mil and $450k at COE, plus my refunded deposit.
THAT ALONE is already 10x's my initial investment. Plus I now have a property worth $6mil that's only LEVERAGED to a little over 60% and I have people standing in line to buy multi-million dollar properties at 65-70% LTV if I can't sell it at the usual 80%.
I'm not saying there's no risk involved, and YES it's ALOT of money. But if you play with pennies you'll always get pennies in return (I'm not saying *you*), and if you play with millions, you'll make millions in return. I don't lose ANY sleep over the thought of possibly losing $50k or even $500k because I know that if I were to lose EVERYTHING in one fell swoop, I have the knowledge to get back on my feet and make my first million within 6mos.
I'm not trying to convince anybody to buy a house. Ownership is NOT for everyone. But just because the market has softened, or there is some supposed "bubble" does not mean that it's not a good time to buy. There's always a better market somewhere. I just bought 10 pre-construction homes in Texas because they are expecting it to go up by 57% in the next 5 years. Yes, they could be wrong, but do you really think the market is going to drop? I don't! RIGHT NOW is a great time to buy for investors. :smile:
"I drive nice cars, own 30+ properties across the US, have a beautiful home in CA (which BTW is 100% financed), and can take off any day I want, because I work for myself. :biggrin:
I buy/sell luxury homes ($1mil up to about $20mil) across the united states! You want an example?
I'd like to get to that point as the big paydays opens up your eyes to the bigger opportunities.
"I don't lose ANY sleep over the thought of possibly losing $50k or even $500k because I know that if I were to lose EVERYTHING in one fell swoop, I have the knowledge to get back on my feet and make my first million within 6mos."
I am getting much more comfortable with the risks as I have been doing hard money lending for just under 2 years (only coastal properties in the 65-75% ltv range) but prefer to only own in CA at this time (Big control freak). I have an accounting degree and attended grad school for taxation so am ultra-conservative by nature. Until my opportunities run out here I believe I can grow to a 7 figure annual income with current knowledge within a handful of years. (or maybe the 1st 6 months of this year if my 2 foreclosures end up REO and the 12 units end up with me)
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