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Is MacMini the 1step for a turnaround?
- Thread starter NSX-Racer
- Start date
Wintel machines are far too ingrained for this to have any significant impact, but I think it's going to be a hot seller nonetheless (at least I hope so, since our graphic chip is in there ;-)) Seriously though, the vast majority of PC users don't need high-end hardware -- that's why the bulk of PC's are low-end machines with integrated graphics. For all of these people, whether it be the home user who just wants an internet client, Office apps and email or a corporate environment looking for a low cost, low real-estate PC for the desktop, this machine makes a lot of sense. I think the Mac's traditional "ease of use", as well as not having to worry about viruses, spyware and other malware slowing down productivity will really appeal to the masses. By ease of use, I mean not only the general workflow of apps on the Mac, but also not having to install drivers every time you plug in something new and not constantly rebooting your machine for every update and cool, productive functionality like Expose.
In an office environment, being able to seamlessly exist on the corporate network and Tiger's "spotlight" will bring a whole new dimension to productivity. Today, most people spend an insane amount of time searching for information. We're in a society dealing with information overload and with hard drives approaching the hundreds of gigabytes it's easy to misplace documents or photos or other snippets of information. The new OS brings a paradigm shift to how you reference all of that information and quickly find and organize it. Once you use it, you can never go back to using a "normal" OS without this kind of advanced organization/search capability.
I think a lot of people are looking for a simple, machine that "just works" and this is it. Go Apple!
In an office environment, being able to seamlessly exist on the corporate network and Tiger's "spotlight" will bring a whole new dimension to productivity. Today, most people spend an insane amount of time searching for information. We're in a society dealing with information overload and with hard drives approaching the hundreds of gigabytes it's easy to misplace documents or photos or other snippets of information. The new OS brings a paradigm shift to how you reference all of that information and quickly find and organize it. Once you use it, you can never go back to using a "normal" OS without this kind of advanced organization/search capability.
I think a lot of people are looking for a simple, machine that "just works" and this is it. Go Apple!
- Joined
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- 1,567
as much as I personally WORSHIP all apple, lol...
I'd have to say no.
SO many people are completely ignorant towards apple who have never used them and swear to never use them. I know cuz I used to be one. I'm 21 and have bought a new laptop each of the last 3 years (which i need to stop if i ever want my NSX lol) and I just felt like something was missing.
Well my last laptop I got in like October was a 12" G4 Powerbook. Everything works! Wireless worked perfectly, battery life phenominal, cool as hell, Didn't weigh 11 pounds like my VAIO, fit and finish (which I'm big on cuz I'm big on the "little things") was great. I love this thing and will never own another Windows.
I had to try it to change my ignorance, alot of people never will. That sucks cuz apple rocks
I'd have to say no.
SO many people are completely ignorant towards apple who have never used them and swear to never use them. I know cuz I used to be one. I'm 21 and have bought a new laptop each of the last 3 years (which i need to stop if i ever want my NSX lol) and I just felt like something was missing.
Well my last laptop I got in like October was a 12" G4 Powerbook. Everything works! Wireless worked perfectly, battery life phenominal, cool as hell, Didn't weigh 11 pounds like my VAIO, fit and finish (which I'm big on cuz I'm big on the "little things") was great. I love this thing and will never own another Windows.
I had to try it to change my ignorance, alot of people never will. That sucks cuz apple rocks
Pretty cool, but why would I want something I can never upgrade. It will be a doorstop in a year.
Pretty cool, but why would I want something I can never upgrade. It will be a doorstop in a year.
Much like a laptop.
The point is that enthusiasts want the ability to tinker with their machine, but MOST people just want the damn thing to work and don't really care about changing any of the components inside it. Hence the success of the iMac and other closed systems.
This machine is clearly not targetted to enthusiasts. It's for average Joe who wants to surf on EBay, check his Hotmail account, have his kids type up their school reports, edit together some simple video's with his new DV camcorder, grab photos from his digital camera and listen to MP3's. Heck maybe even play some games every now and then. This machine can do all of these things just fine.
Most non-enthusiasts replace their computer every 3-4 years, and at $499, it won't be such a big deal to do that.
It's cute -- but it doesn't really matter. The Mac cult will go on, and the Windows blokes won't care. Macs are a niche market -- which isn't necessarily a bad thing; there's still a lot of money to be made, and a lot of cool stuff to do in a niche.
Arshad’s exactly right: mini is not for power users.
I found this article’s take on Mac mini very interesting. I like direction in which Apple headed when it comes to "media centers." Compared to an XP Media Center Edition PC, the Mac mini (with its compact form factor, user-friendly OS and suite of applications) would seem more at home in the living room, as part of your home theater system. I think a Mac mini with some sort of a DVR capability would be slick (especially with the SuperDrive)!
I found this article’s take on Mac mini very interesting. I like direction in which Apple headed when it comes to "media centers." Compared to an XP Media Center Edition PC, the Mac mini (with its compact form factor, user-friendly OS and suite of applications) would seem more at home in the living room, as part of your home theater system. I think a Mac mini with some sort of a DVR capability would be slick (especially with the SuperDrive)!
I used to think that too. But for $500, who needs to upgrade?NetViper said:
Besides how many people upgrade these days?
Everything is becoming disposable.
Ojas.....
Its called the EyeTV200, its a DVR that records in DVD compliant MPEG2 format onto your hard drive. Its a Firewire based box that has an array of video inputs & also a TV tuner. I used the original EyeTV with my Titanium Powerbook when i was at my summer beach house and was suffering from Tivo withdrawl (I have a DirecTV Sony SAT-60 Tivo/Sat reciever).
Just plug it in, conect to some sort of TV source (Calbe/Sat/Antenna). Its bus powered, so no cords of whatnot.
www.elgato.com should be the website for it.
I also considered a ForMac Studio DV, but the EyeTV was extremely well priced for the features at the time i purchased it.
Now i use a Dazzle DV-Bridge to import video into iMovie (simple projects or TV shows) or Final Cut Pro (complex projects)
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On a side note, i've showed the www.apple.com website to alot of PC users, and pointed them towards the Mac-Mini. They never wanted to explore a Mac before because the price was too high. They laughed at me when i purchased my G4 2x1.25ghz, with second drive, upgraded gfx card, and more memory and it tipped the scales at $4000+. They love my machine, but think its way over priced.
They saw the price of the Mac-Mini, and cant believe that its that cheap and faster than the previous generation (swivel screen) iMac. More than a few (die-hard PC gamers) have put there orders in for it, to use it as a Internet Brower (I've never had a popup using Safari), and basic digital hub for Music & Photos.
They still will keep there PC machines for Power Gaming. But after i finish paying off my Snap-On bill in the next couple of months, i'm going to take the plunge and get the G5 2x2.5, sell my G4 box and buy the 30" lcd, and use my 23"lcd as a secondary..... then we'll see if they will switch.
-Ray
Its called the EyeTV200, its a DVR that records in DVD compliant MPEG2 format onto your hard drive. Its a Firewire based box that has an array of video inputs & also a TV tuner. I used the original EyeTV with my Titanium Powerbook when i was at my summer beach house and was suffering from Tivo withdrawl (I have a DirecTV Sony SAT-60 Tivo/Sat reciever).
Just plug it in, conect to some sort of TV source (Calbe/Sat/Antenna). Its bus powered, so no cords of whatnot.
www.elgato.com should be the website for it.
I also considered a ForMac Studio DV, but the EyeTV was extremely well priced for the features at the time i purchased it.
Now i use a Dazzle DV-Bridge to import video into iMovie (simple projects or TV shows) or Final Cut Pro (complex projects)
------
On a side note, i've showed the www.apple.com website to alot of PC users, and pointed them towards the Mac-Mini. They never wanted to explore a Mac before because the price was too high. They laughed at me when i purchased my G4 2x1.25ghz, with second drive, upgraded gfx card, and more memory and it tipped the scales at $4000+. They love my machine, but think its way over priced.
They saw the price of the Mac-Mini, and cant believe that its that cheap and faster than the previous generation (swivel screen) iMac. More than a few (die-hard PC gamers) have put there orders in for it, to use it as a Internet Brower (I've never had a popup using Safari), and basic digital hub for Music & Photos.
They still will keep there PC machines for Power Gaming. But after i finish paying off my Snap-On bill in the next couple of months, i'm going to take the plunge and get the G5 2x2.5, sell my G4 box and buy the 30" lcd, and use my 23"lcd as a secondary..... then we'll see if they will switch.
-Ray
The Mac cult will go on, and the Windows blokes won't care.
Actually, I sort of disagree with this. Although for the most part, this will be true, there is an ever increasing number of "novice" users who are becoming frustated with their computing experience. I'm talking about people like our parents or the lady next door who really don't know much about computers. They want a simple, straightforward experience for downloading pics off their digital camera and emailing it to their friends. They HATE dealing with viruses, and spyware and other crap which has reduced their brand new 3Ghz P4 to a slow crawl. In fact, they may not even realize why their machine isn't as zippy as it used to be a few days ago when they bought it. To them it's an inconvenient and confusing setting up virus checkers and running spyware checkers and installing drivers every time they hook up something new. They want plug and play without the hassles and the Mac promises them that. If they experience this first-hand, I don't think it's a hard sell for them to dump their PC and get a cheap Mac.
Most people will never have the opportunity to experience a Mac, but those that do (through an Apple store or reading a review or at a friends house etc) may well switch. This mini-mac is directly targetted at those PC switchers in my opinion.
Ojas: Interesting article, but the author should really look at the organization and search capabilities in the next version of MacOS (Tiger). Apple has already solved the problems that Google wants to tackle: http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlight.html
I've used it, and it is unbelievable how much more productive you can be with it!
The old mac vs pc argument. I'm sure alot of guys are too young to have experienced this but in the mid 80's, I was taking a computer science class and we had the choice of doing projects on a mac or IBM. The advanced guys all used IBM's and scoffed at macs... making fun of the "mouse" and all that double clicking. They much prefered typing in DOS. My my
Ah I remember them well.. there was also the Amiga vs Atari ST.. or the TRS-80 vs the Commodore 64 arguments etc. etc. Let's face it, the Mac "lost" a long time ago to the PC.
Now I think we're seeing some change from the "usability" perspective because the popularity of the PC has also brought on all kinds of unwelcome guests. It's no longer the HW capabilities of the machines, but rather how seamless and non-frustrating the experience can be. That's what matters to most people. To the rest of us power-users, whether we're Mac or PC, the mini really doesn't make a lot of sense except as a tiny media server at best.
Now I think we're seeing some change from the "usability" perspective because the popularity of the PC has also brought on all kinds of unwelcome guests. It's no longer the HW capabilities of the machines, but rather how seamless and non-frustrating the experience can be. That's what matters to most people. To the rest of us power-users, whether we're Mac or PC, the mini really doesn't make a lot of sense except as a tiny media server at best.
- Joined
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This Mac Mini is Apple's attempt at cashing in on the popularity of the iPod and transfering some of those first time Apple product users into the Apple computing world. Awareness of Apple and it's products has gone up 10 fold ever since the iPod was mentioned in the media every 10 seconds. People who have bought the iPod and found it to be a nice, clear, easy to use device will assume (rightfully so?) that this easy of use transfers over to Apple computers also. The biggest road block in the past was that their computers cost way to much. Now at $500 it is much more attainable. It's a brilliant move on Job's part (although it doesn't really take a genius to think of it). I'm not much of an apple fan, but I do think it's a very nice package.
I think they did miss the boat a bit by not including a TV tuner so that it can be used as a DVR. This decide would be great in the home theatre. I know you can add that Elgato tuner, but now u're talking about a system that costs at least $650 w/ very little ram, a small HDD, and no DVD burner. You can will build a capable small form factor XPC for less money. With all the extra money (6 billion) that Apple has sitting around, I think they should have eaten part of the cost of the unit and sold it for $350-400. Imagine the numbers they would sell. I'd grab one. After selling huge numbers OSX would suddenly become a prime time OS. Image the power Apple would then have. They'd have the iPod, iTunes, OSX all huge sellers, if I were Microsoft I would be scared at that point. Oh well. Job's is a smart guy, I'm sure he has more stuff up his sleeves.
On a seperate note, I think the iPod Shuffle is crap. Decent price, but it's a lame idea (no screen which they make up for it by the shuffle music concept) and yet it will still be a huge success because it's an iPod. Marketing is so powerful.
I think they did miss the boat a bit by not including a TV tuner so that it can be used as a DVR. This decide would be great in the home theatre. I know you can add that Elgato tuner, but now u're talking about a system that costs at least $650 w/ very little ram, a small HDD, and no DVD burner. You can will build a capable small form factor XPC for less money. With all the extra money (6 billion) that Apple has sitting around, I think they should have eaten part of the cost of the unit and sold it for $350-400. Imagine the numbers they would sell. I'd grab one. After selling huge numbers OSX would suddenly become a prime time OS. Image the power Apple would then have. They'd have the iPod, iTunes, OSX all huge sellers, if I were Microsoft I would be scared at that point. Oh well. Job's is a smart guy, I'm sure he has more stuff up his sleeves.
On a seperate note, I think the iPod Shuffle is crap. Decent price, but it's a lame idea (no screen which they make up for it by the shuffle music concept) and yet it will still be a huge success because it's an iPod. Marketing is so powerful.
I didn't vote myself in my poll because I was really not sure what to think about it. But now I voted "yes" after reading all your comments (thanks for that and also for the votes!).
Assuming there are much more Windows than Mac users on this board I guess it where not only the Mac addicts (like me) that voted yes (if the poll stays about 50/50) which gives me some hope that the MacMini will really seduce some Windows users.
For the iPod: I don't like it too much because it isn't a MP3 player - you always have to convert your files unless you take them directly from iTunes. OTOH it is a huge success that brought Apple into the minds of new customers.
So maybe I should alter NSXtasys signature a bit: APPLE - spread the word!
Assuming there are much more Windows than Mac users on this board I guess it where not only the Mac addicts (like me) that voted yes (if the poll stays about 50/50) which gives me some hope that the MacMini will really seduce some Windows users.
For the iPod: I don't like it too much because it isn't a MP3 player - you always have to convert your files unless you take them directly from iTunes. OTOH it is a huge success that brought Apple into the minds of new customers.
So maybe I should alter NSXtasys signature a bit: APPLE - spread the word!
Although the “Shuffle” name might be, I don’t think iPod Shuffle itself is “crap.” I absolutely prefer the storage capacity and features of a regular iPod, but I think lack of display would actually be a minor gripe (perhaps not even an issue) for many people who just want to fire up some music (or hear an audiobook), especially while engaged in other activities.
Like the Mac mini - It’s not for the power users who like full control over the technology they use. However, it does make technology accessible to regular people who might be reluctant to use a more complex device.
Perhaps you have iTunes configured to rip to AAC and convert your existing library to AAC. Or perhaps I misunderstand your statement.
Like the Mac mini - It’s not for the power users who like full control over the technology they use. However, it does make technology accessible to regular people who might be reluctant to use a more complex device.
iPod does plays MP3 files. My entire library is in MP3 format and no conversion (manual or otherwise) is necessary. I am certain the iPod plays MP3 - the files on its drive are bit-for-bit copies of the original.NSX-Racer said:
Perhaps you have iTunes configured to rip to AAC and convert your existing library to AAC. Or perhaps I misunderstand your statement.
This will not be a big threat to Microsoft / PCs. Linux is the one to watch for.
Ojas said:
Of course you're right, Ojas. I was mislead by some wrong informations published here in Germany (not by Apple), maybe based on the fact that Apple Germany uses only the AAC format as a reference for the capacity of the iPod on their website:
Kapazität
* 20GB oder 40GB Festplattenlaufwerk (1)
* Für 5.000 oder 10.000 Songs im AAC-Format (Komprimierung: 128KBit/Sek.) (2)
* Speichert Daten via FireWire oder USB 2.0 Festplatte
dawggpie said:
Thank you for injecting some real insight into this thread. Exactly what I was thinking from the get-go.
Still, this box is amazing. It won't do anything to turn the PC tide, but you can not ignore the appeal of this little box. Along those lines, the size of this unit is what really impressed me. For an urbanite minimalist living in a 2 room loft, this sleek cube makes the perfect corner office companion.
I just defected today!
For the first time in many many dell computers, I am going to try an Apple (my last apple was a II GS in the early 90's). I have a 14.4 G4 Ibook and a 20gig I pod on the way
For the first time in many many dell computers, I am going to try an Apple (my last apple was a II GS in the early 90's). I have a 14.4 G4 Ibook and a 20gig I pod on the way
Dawggpie, I agree that a digital media server would be awesome, but a) it would be difficult for them to hit $499 and b) they don't have DVR SW ready. A tuner by itself is useless. If they had a nicely integrated package that tied in a good TiVo like interface w/ HW MPEG-2 encoder along with the ability to stream MP3's, Video's, pictures etc. in a seamless manner, they would have a killer product.
When I was at CES last week I saw dozens of products that purported to do the above, but nothing did it well or at a reasonable price point. It's the seamless integration that's the key, not just including the hardware. It makes sense that Apple would move in this direction given the demand, but that's going to take time to implement. In the meantime, it makes sense for them to capitalize on the popularity of the iPod and use the Halo effect to convert some new users to the Mac.
I 100% agree with your assertion that they should have made this thing a loss-leader to get people to use the Mac. They can always make up the delta with SW sales and by building a userbase who will want to upgrade to more powerful HW down the road.
When I was at CES last week I saw dozens of products that purported to do the above, but nothing did it well or at a reasonable price point. It's the seamless integration that's the key, not just including the hardware. It makes sense that Apple would move in this direction given the demand, but that's going to take time to implement. In the meantime, it makes sense for them to capitalize on the popularity of the iPod and use the Halo effect to convert some new users to the Mac.
I 100% agree with your assertion that they should have made this thing a loss-leader to get people to use the Mac. They can always make up the delta with SW sales and by building a userbase who will want to upgrade to more powerful HW down the road.
- Joined
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Arshad said:
woah, i just reread my post.. i'll try a bit harder to proof read in the future =P
Back to your quote... exactly... I don't understand why Apple is concerned about making the quick buck rather than taking this great opportunity to really set themselves up for a great future. Most people that go over to the Apple side seem to be avid apple users going forward so they'd capture a great user base. Only thing I can think of is that they're confident they'll sell just as many at the current price point or they have manufacturing limitations and would never be able to meet the demand they'd receive at a <$500 price point.
DVR software is key, like u said, but I think Apple could relatively quickly throw together a nice software package. Something similar to MythTV that's available for Linux. I've been contemplating throwing together a MythTV box for my HT. Mac Mini would be the perfect hardware to run it.
About all those DVR units coming out, the biggest problem i see with them is that they use proprietary hardware and software. I don't trust any of those small or big companies (like toshiba and sony who are releasing units soon) to make solid software and to keep it updated. I'd much rather have a PC and let software venders battle it out to produce the best DVR software. Plus a PC is much more flexible. I'm not locked into only using it as a DVR. HD TVs are becomming pretty common and they make great computer monitors to display pretty much any PC app on them w/o having readability problems.
I think companies under estimate how important it will be to control the "media center" pc market. Probably because they've been burned in the past when media center products have done poorly. But I think the technology is available now (HD TV, DVRs, MP3, photo sharing, games, DVD-R, video editing) that will actually make the media center PC useful.
I think Arshad has a very good grasp of the situation. Personally, I was an Apple fan until the Mac, but I always hated the Mac OS. I haven’t had any experience with OSX but numerous times over the years I found myself trying to use one or help someone setup a small database on what etc. and I always found it frustrating and infantile. Of course it has a lot to do with what you learn first, but I still don’t think it has any more claim to being “intuitive” than Windows.
As for them being a threat to WinTell, fat chance. A reasonable goal would be getting back to perhaps 10% of the market. For all the reasons Arshad describes they just might do that. Once the initial rush is over you will probably see more added to the current price point and the original/stripper version going down another notch. After all, no sense giving them away while demand is high. The iPod goodwill has plenty of legs.
Let the most eager buyers pay top dollar, then lower the price so the rest feel they are getting an even better deal.
BTW, MS & Gates will be pleased if it does well. They need the competition so as not to be seen as a monopoly, which is why he has supported Apple financially in the past.
As for them being a threat to WinTell, fat chance. A reasonable goal would be getting back to perhaps 10% of the market. For all the reasons Arshad describes they just might do that. Once the initial rush is over you will probably see more added to the current price point and the original/stripper version going down another notch. After all, no sense giving them away while demand is high. The iPod goodwill has plenty of legs.
Let the most eager buyers pay top dollar, then lower the price so the rest feel they are getting an even better deal.
BTW, MS & Gates will be pleased if it does well. They need the competition so as not to be seen as a monopoly, which is why he has supported Apple financially in the past.
sjs, you should give a modern mac a twirl -- I think you'll like it, especially if you're a power-user. All the convenience up-front, and all the tweakability down below. It's a far cry from pre-OSX, which really was a joke of an OS. It's like Linux but with a single distro without compatibility issues, a unified UI, and lots of top notch apps that you don't have to spend hours compiling yourself! It's really like Linux for Dummies -- all the power of Linux without all the hassle of Linux
I don't understand why Apple is concerned about making the quick buck rather than taking this great opportunity to really set themselves up for a great future.
Dawggpie, I think the problem is that they're not big enough, with diversified enough revenue coming from other sources (like Sony or MS) to pull off a loss-leader like this without pissing off their investors by killing their gross margins.
DVR software is key, like u said, but I think Apple could relatively quickly throw together a nice software package. Something similar to MythTV that's available for Linux. I've been contemplating throwing together a MythTV box for my HT. Mac Mini would be the perfect hardware to run it.
Well, personally I think MythTV is crap, but that's only because I'm developing a competing product ;-) Seriously though, MythTV is a royal pain in the butt to set up and I don't find it all that great to use either. For example, here are the steps for setting it up on a Mac:
http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsx
Install MySQL and LAME and Qt and FreeType etc. etc. before you even get around to installing MythTV! If it doesn't come with a one-click installer, then most people aren't up to going through this hassle. Then there's the whole issue of getting reliable Electronic Programming Guide (EPG) data, whether it be through scraping with XMLTV or using lame web-based ones like TitanTV. Ideally what you want is a direct, high quality feed from a source like Gemstar or Tribune etc. But of course you have to pay for those, and they don't sell directly to the consumer as far as I'm aware.
Of course we haven't even confronted the BIG issue which is that it's not even going to be feasible (if you want decent quality) without a dedicated HW encoder. It simply does not have the horsepower to do realtime 720x480 MPEG-2 without taking serious shortcuts which have a negative impact on the video quality. Especially if you want to use your machine for doing something else simultaneously!
So if you look at what Apple has to do:
1) Write a good DVR package with a solid 10-foot UI, ala TiVo or Digeo. This is an enormous effort. Entire companies are built on the strength of this software (such as the aforementioned and others). What is the ammortized cost of this SW effort?
2) Include a tuner and HW MPEG-2 encoder. Their cost would probably be an additional $25-$30 for this + glue components alone. $25 bill of materials translates to $50 or $60 retail that needs to be passed onto the consumer to maintain margins.
3) Include a larger HD since it's not a dedicated capture drive. There's no space in the box to include two drives, so perhaps include an 80GB and then partition the thing (either dynamically through SW, or a fixed HW partition). So add another $40 to the cost.
4) Develop or license from 3rd party an RF remote. Add another $10 to their cost.
5) Licensing cost for guide data from a high quality source like Gemstar or Tribune. This can be substantial. I know our company pays millions a year to pass this onto our customers.
Overall they're going to have to pass on an additional $150-200 cost to the end-user. If they had all the pieces ready, I think this would have been a great "option". ie either get the machine as is, or for $200 more, you can make it a fully functional DVR. People would snap it up like hotcakes, especially if it included a FTA HD tuner. But if they wanted to maintain their margins, there's no way they could have added all this and still sold for $500.
My 2c anyways :biggrin:
I don't understand why Apple is concerned about making the quick buck rather than taking this great opportunity to really set themselves up for a great future.
Dawggpie, I think the problem is that they're not big enough, with diversified enough revenue coming from other sources (like Sony or MS) to pull off a loss-leader like this without pissing off their investors by killing their gross margins.
DVR software is key, like u said, but I think Apple could relatively quickly throw together a nice software package. Something similar to MythTV that's available for Linux. I've been contemplating throwing together a MythTV box for my HT. Mac Mini would be the perfect hardware to run it.
Well, personally I think MythTV is crap, but that's only because I'm developing a competing product ;-) Seriously though, MythTV is a royal pain in the butt to set up and I don't find it all that great to use either. For example, here are the steps for setting it up on a Mac:
http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsx
Install MySQL and LAME and Qt and FreeType etc. etc. before you even get around to installing MythTV! If it doesn't come with a one-click installer, then most people aren't up to going through this hassle. Then there's the whole issue of getting reliable Electronic Programming Guide (EPG) data, whether it be through scraping with XMLTV or using lame web-based ones like TitanTV. Ideally what you want is a direct, high quality feed from a source like Gemstar or Tribune etc. But of course you have to pay for those, and they don't sell directly to the consumer as far as I'm aware.
Of course we haven't even confronted the BIG issue which is that it's not even going to be feasible (if you want decent quality) without a dedicated HW encoder. It simply does not have the horsepower to do realtime 720x480 MPEG-2 without taking serious shortcuts which have a negative impact on the video quality. Especially if you want to use your machine for doing something else simultaneously!
So if you look at what Apple has to do:
1) Write a good DVR package with a solid 10-foot UI, ala TiVo or Digeo. This is an enormous effort. Entire companies are built on the strength of this software (such as the aforementioned and others). What is the ammortized cost of this SW effort?
2) Include a tuner and HW MPEG-2 encoder. Their cost would probably be an additional $25-$30 for this + glue components alone. $25 bill of materials translates to $50 or $60 retail that needs to be passed onto the consumer to maintain margins.
3) Include a larger HD since it's not a dedicated capture drive. There's no space in the box to include two drives, so perhaps include an 80GB and then partition the thing (either dynamically through SW, or a fixed HW partition). So add another $40 to the cost.
4) Develop or license from 3rd party an RF remote. Add another $10 to their cost.
5) Licensing cost for guide data from a high quality source like Gemstar or Tribune. This can be substantial. I know our company pays millions a year to pass this onto our customers.
Overall they're going to have to pass on an additional $150-200 cost to the end-user. If they had all the pieces ready, I think this would have been a great "option". ie either get the machine as is, or for $200 more, you can make it a fully functional DVR. People would snap it up like hotcakes, especially if it included a FTA HD tuner. But if they wanted to maintain their margins, there's no way they could have added all this and still sold for $500.
My 2c anyways :biggrin:
I'm thinking of going back to mac. My first computer was a Mac before Win95 came out. I didnt want to deal with DOS or Win 3.xx so thats what I asked from my parents. This MacMini does look like something I would get as a second computer, but I'm more interested in a dual processor machine. Any Power Mac users out there? I would use it to work with alot of video. Any recommendations?
If you're into video then FCP Express + LiveType is an awesome combination. If you can afford to throw Motion into the mix, even better. I do all my editing on a powerbook with an external 160GB drive connected through USB2. The specs are very similar to that mini, so it's possible to do it, but FCP requires everything to be rendered and this is a CPU intensive process. Running the same thing on a dual 2Ghz G5 at work speeds things up substantially. Plus it's more convenient to throw a big drive into the case rather than have it hanging off the side. The other thing is that for editing, you'll really want to hook up a decent sized display for good screen real-estate. PM me if you have any specific questions about the dual G5 systems.
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