Latest C&D predictions

[NSX2398]

Sept 2014 issue of C&D has a section on 2015 'new cars' and for the NSX they say "The mid-engined NSX will go on sale late in 2015 as a 2016 model ... and should have a base price just over $100,000. The engine will .. displace slightly less than four liters. ... We expect the NSX to make around 500 combined horsepower"
I don't know what their track record is for predictions but I think this is the first time I've read anything recently about a release date. Now given the recent issues at the 'Ring which would have happened after the magazine went to print, we may now not see it until 2016 at the earliest .. :frown:
Also, the first time I recall seeing anyone make a definitive prediction on displacement .. although "slightly less than 4 liters" sounds like more than previous 3.7 liter rumours. Elsewhere in the writeup, they comment that the engine appears to be 90 degree and therefore unrelated to any of the other V6s in the Acura lineup .. which I presume suggests that baseing displacement rumours off of existing bore/stroke/block designs is ill-advised. But, I can't rationalize how they came to only "500 combined horsepower" .. a twin-turbo close to 4 liters should make 500 hp by itself without the electric assist.

 

[areout]

if 2 liter S2000 could make 240 HP 15 years ago then sure they could make a V8 NA engine that would make 500 HP today

ahh, sweet dreams...

 

[bngl3rt]

Recent reviews of the Ferrari California T quoted a head honcho at Ferrari as saying they are highly incentivized to stay under 4.0L as engines 4000cc and above carry higher import taxes in many parts of the world. I.e., the turbocharged 458 replacement will probably be 3999cc

 

[effer]

... But, I can't rationalize how they came to only "500 combined horsepower" .. a twin-turbo close to 4 liters should make 500 hp by itself without the electric assist.

Total nonsense.

This turbo powerplant will deliver at least 150 hp/L. Should deliver between 175 and 200 hp/L, if Honda takes seriously his role of producing a Halo car and entering in the supercar arena ...



Supposing a 4L displacement:

600 hp at least, and ideally, between 700 hp and 800 hp.




With 500 combined hp only, Honda will be ridiculed worldwide no matter how this power will be distributed:

400 hp V6 ( around 100 hp/L to 118 hp/L output for the halo car with its halo engine? Assuming a displacement range between 3,5 L and 4 L ) and 100 hp for 3 electric engines ? Pathetic ...


OTOH 70 hp + 70 hp from electric motors leaves only 360 hp for the turbo V6 ... ( so 90 hp/L to 103 hp/L for their Halo car ... )

TOTAL NONSENSE


My guess ( utopic ): 3,8L V6 engine. 175 hp/L power output. 665 hp + 140 hp from electric motors = 835 combined hp.

That could achieve Ring laps int he Porsche 918 realm ...

 

[liftcontrol]

Total nonsense.


My guess ( utopic ): 3,8L V6 engine. 175 hp/L power output. 665 hp + 140 hp from electric motors = 835 combined hp.

That could achieve Ring laps int he Porsche 918 realm ...

835 HP is highly unlikely.
Likely 500 HP from ICE + 140 or so from electric motors: max 650
Honda does not do crazy HP as much as we may hope.
650 HP in a light, balanced chassis with advanced torque vectoring can do wonders.

 

[effer]

835 HP is highly unlikely.
Likely 500 HP from ICE + 140 or so from electric motors: max 650
Honda does not do crazy HP as much as we may hope.
650 HP in a light, balanced chassis with advanced torque vectoring can do wonders.

It could.


500 hp from V6 turbo means a small displacement engine because we expect from this halo car a respectable power output. More than 150 hp/L to 175 hp/L.

IOW displacements between 3,3 L to 2,8 L ...


And 3,5 L would mean 525 hp @ 150 hp/L.


So, with your logic I would go with 550 hp from ICE + 140 from electric motors: around 700 hp.


Hope the bigger side vents explain it ...

 

[liftcontrol]

It could.



So, with your logic I would go with 550 hp from ICE + 140 from electric motors: around 700 hp.


Hope the bigger side vents explain it ...

That sounds reasonable
I just have trouble imagining any HONDA product with 700 or even 600 HP! Sort of a lingering psychological impasse from the excellent but under powered original NSX I suppose
On the other hand it did burn on the Ring like a true exotic :wink:

But if they truly want to compete with the big boys, they really don't have much choice but to add lightness AND power!

If it really is around 700 HP and they price it right, [max 150k], then it would be very tempting indeed.

Cheers!

 

[LookingForMyImola]

I sincerely doubt Honda will push that much power out of the NSX. The Nissan GTR pushed only about 485hp when it first came out, from a 3.8L twin turbo V6. I'd be highly surprised if Honda shoots for anything over 600. I think 500-600 is where this car will land, all depending on the displacement of the engine.


Again, it'll be the aerodynamics and use of lightweight materials that will make this car. Sure, the power numbers may not look all that special on paper, but if the car weighs 3500 pounds, then it will be a serious contender. The GTR is around 3850 pounds and considered to be a bit of a pig.


As cool as 650+ horsepower would be, could you in all honesty see Honda ever doing that? I'd be seriously shocked and pleasantly surprised if they did!


But let's be honest, a few dollars spent on aftermarket goodies will easily net another 100-150hp, I bet. ah, the beauty of turbos and tuning.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Yeah that is if you can tune such a complex drivetrain.

But forget the power.... "Just over 100k"??? Why is no one talking about the new cheap price?

 

[bngl3rt]

But let's be honest, a few dollars spent on aftermarket goodies will easily net another 100-150hp, I bet. ah, the beauty of turbos and tuning.

I'm most excited for this. $10k of bolt ons (sounds like a lot but it's a $110k car so think percentages...) gets a modern GT-R to 700whp with a good tune. The only other cars I know of that approach this horsepower-per-percentage-of-purchase-price tuning potential are the American NA V8 cars, but that's just because they come detuned as f**k from the factory with lots of power on the table. The GT-R is pretty high strung from the factory, but there's just so much more aftermarket opportunity in a factory turbo car. This was my first thought when they announced the NSX drivetrain change.

 

[liftcontrol]

But forget the power.... "Just over 100k"??? Why is no one talking about the new cheap price?

I think that figure of just over 100k is really difficult to swallow.
Even a 911 with must-have options easily runs into much higher $ amount.
The GT3 starts around 140k; the 458 is at least twice that optioned;
If the NSX has the goodies they are promising, I cannot imagine it costing the same as a GTR which has none of the exotic materials, hybrid tech or the myriad other features.

I will be [pleasantly] shocked if the NSX comes in under $140.

 

[LookingForMyImola]

I think that figure of just over 100k is really difficult to swallow.
Even a 911 with must-have options easily runs into much higher $ amount.
The GT3 starts around 140k; the 458 is at least twice that optioned;
If the NSX has the goodies they are promising, I cannot imagine it costing the same as a GTR which has none of the exotic materials, hybrid tech or the myriad other features.

I will be [pleasantly] shocked if the NSX comes in under $140.

Plus the ridiculous dealership markups... Nonetheless, that is another reason why I see this car pushing 500-600 hp at the very most. Honda wants to keep a reasonable price on this car. I think the first wave of NSXs will go for 150-160k after dealer markups, then scale back to about 120-125k. 'Just over 100k' leaves a lot for interpretation.

The GT3 starts at 140k, but Porsche likes to gouge a lot when it comes to their options, which leads me to believe that in reality the GT3 could be sold for a lot less, however, you're paying for the name.

 

[docjohn]

price is a very specific metric in a new car...back in the day the nsx was priced to the 348-911 spectrum with far superior build and quality control.Today they should price it in the 911/R8 range and wow us with new tech.

 

[Honcho]

Doc are you going to get one? I know you got robbed when you bought your 96 and they came out with the NA2 a few months later...

 

[docjohn]

Ah yes good ol Greenwich acura..............I'm very interested in the new car....leave it stock I will....track the bee...

 

[TURBO2GO]

Same with me I was going to sell the current NSX but I just can't. Going to have to be 2 cars or the current one stays.

 

[Honcho]

I'm in a position to get it too but I like my 91 too much. It is a raw sports car. Plus Mrs. Honcho says I get to own only one NSX, so looks like I'll be kickin it old school.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'm most excited for this. $10k of bolt ons (sounds like a lot but it's a $110k car so think percentages...) gets a modern GT-R to 700whp with a good tune. The only other cars I know of that approach this horsepower-per-percentage-of-purchase-price tuning potential are the American NA V8 cars, but that's just because they come detuned as f**k from the factory with lots of power on the table. The GT-R is pretty high strung from the factory, but there's just so much more aftermarket opportunity in a factory turbo car. This was my first thought when they announced the NSX drivetrain change.

Don't go too far ahead here. You are talking about modifying a car that is an ICE engine and 3 electric motors working in conjunction with regenerative energy, a computer controlled AWD system, and probably a whole host of things some have NEVER seen before. You're not going to just drop in some dinosaur (by comparison) AEM and tune it all up by your local tuner and make it work right. I am sure eventually someone will figure it out like they do anything else, but that may take some serious time and be waaaay costly. I am also skeptical of even a GT-R with a "10K" upgrade at 700HP long term, if that is actually what they are pulling. But these two are not remotely the same animal. It's just not something I would count on as being available after a purchase. The proprietary codes and algorithms will probably be very difficult to break.

 

[JD Cross]

Doc and Dave being rich guys means they can have two NSX's but, alas, being retired on a pension means at best only one NSX for me.
Which one it will be is up in the air until the new one emerges and is priced.
If it is underwhelming or overpriced I shall have to stay with my original.

 

[TURBO2GO]

And honestly... for me it is all about the experience not about the numbers and I am certain Ted Klaus gets this. If it is an amazing experience at 200 HP I will still take it. What you need for power is just enough to provide the right experience. The 458 provides QUITE an experience, I don't know how they will match the aural characteristics alone with a V6, the shape is also very visceral and the NSX has to at least match that.... and at a lower price. It really needs to be genius. Ted said it will look better than the concept and I think seeing what was on the ring proved he wasn't lying. Even in that psychedelic wrap it looked more mean.

 

[docjohn]

we are all rich in wisdom.......

 

[TURBO2GO]

we are all rich in wisdom.......

and talent....

 

[effer]

Doc and Dave being rich guys means they can have two NSX's but, alas, being retired on a pension means at best only one NSX for me.
Which one it will be is up in the air until the new one emerges and is priced.
If it is underwhelming or overpriced I shall have to stay with my original.

Sad to hear that.

I would not like to be in such a position ...

It would be very difficult for me to let go the first gen NSX, which is truly considered as an icon. For this new upcoming NSX, nobody knows ... No matter how good the new one will perform ...


I think I would keep the first gen NSX and wait a few years for a second hand or simply save some money and indulge myself in renting one for a short while ...


The first gen will undoubtedly appreciate significantly for the next 10 or 15 years ... We should keep them ...


I would be torn ...

A simple test: which one of these two cars lights you more. For me, obviously it is the first generation NSX ( pre 02 moreover ) ...

 

[torontonsx]

NO NO NO.....

YOU ALL HAVE IT WRONG!!

I {of course} have the inside scoop for all you NSXers not in the loop...

Honda Engineering & NASA have combined to produce THE NEW RBAS Unit


The New Honda NSX now has a special key {RED} that is inserted into a special hidden spot in the glove box

The new (yep you herd it here first) RBAS system{Rocket Boost Assist System} is an engineering marvel {like the comic book}

This new propulsion system will hurtle the NEW NSX from 0-100kph is 1.2 seconds

In a meer micro-second the system deploys {from a hollowed out volcano}... leaving every other car as a burn-out shell...

this information was reported in the October 1 2016 issue of Car & Driver ...

come on boys try and get your facts straight.... and .. stop making stuff up ...:biggrin: