tell me about NA1 and NA2 intangibles

[ChopsJazz]

The automatics are detuned versions though with only 256 hp - I believe that's right. I think if you put a slash between the N/A you have opened it up for waaaay too many other combinations, like Not Applicable, etc. NA stands for naturally aspirated in most of the car mags I see as well.

I think it was pretty clear from my post that that information was taken directly from the Prime Wiki. If you don't like the slash between the N and A (it was listed as an AKA, not the common designation), then go into the Wiki and change it.

For all intents and purposes, the gist of my post is quite clear: NA1 and NA2 are engine designations only and do not refer to any body (read: coupe, targa, headlights, et al.) styles.

 

[Track Addict]

http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Changes_by_Year

Some good info to look at...

I bought a 91 because...

More headroom
Lightest of all models
Stiffer chassis than a T
Less expensive to buy
OBD1- can custom tune ECU

some negative things...
Old ABS system
No power steering
Smaller brakes

^x2 but i don't think that i would like the power steering on my car to be honest and the brakes and ABS systems are all gonna leave my car soon as i can grab a hold of a BBK

 

[tbromley]

Thanks guys...

Question 1... Is there any reason to "tune" this car every so many years? I had a guy trying to sell me on tuning my NSX and I thought that was just if you modified the engine, headers, exhaust, super/turbo.. etc etc.

Question 2... I just purchasd the car, should I have it dyno'ed and if so, is 85 dollars for 3 pulls

Thanks

JF

I'm just curious - what would be the purpose of dyno-ing your car? As to tuning - as Big D said. air filter, oil changes, spark plugs - your ECU does the rest. Nothing to worry about.

 

[MakeMineRed]

I read through all the posts, but I haven't seen anyone counter the original posters thought's on buying the "newest Porsche."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
I couldn't disagree more. I'm assuming everyone here enjoys the "drive" as much as they do the physical aspects. <o></o>
<o></o>
It is well known that older Porsches exhibit a fun factor that exceeds the new ones. Whether it be better steering/brake feel, less electronic interaction or better turn-in feel, these are all true. I'd take an RS America over a GT3 any day. <o></o>
<o></o>
When the first water cooled 911 was driven, almost everyone agreed the car lacked feel and had too many driver aids to be a real Porsche. In my opinion everyone buying a new Porsche has "settled" for something they think is a real Porsche but will never know what they are missing until they drive an air cooled example. <o></o>
<o></o>
Having said all this, I believe the first generation NSX's are the best buy. Take money out of the equation. The next generation of any vehicle will always lose its original essence....think E30 M3 vs E46. <o></o>
<o></o>
If you pay a bit more for a pristine early model, you will experience the essence of what the original designers had in mind for the NSX. <o></o>
<o></o>
<o></o>
I believe Richard Hammond put it best on his test drive of the Type R: The car has become nothing more than an engineer's play thing. <o></o>

 

[oscar_driver]

I bought a 91 because...

More headroom = PFFFF 0.3mm? OMG so much, I can wear a Viking Helmet lol!
Lightest of all models = Lighter by 100 lb's (removing the a Targa cover + spare tire does the trick) but still SLOWER than a stock Na2
Stiffer chassis than a T = I'll give you that, but unless you race you NSX @ the nationals you will not really feel any performance loss
Less expensive to buy = THAT'S IT
OBD1- can custom tune ECU = PFFF Unless you are with BIG Turbos you don't really care about it

Let's be Honest here, I didn't buy a 2001 because of price, that's why I got my 97, I don't really care about 02+ b/c of the bug eyes, which look fantastic, but also I am afraid they look a bit "forced" ... but I did get a lot of the 02+ things in my car -such wheels, rear valance, taillights etc - that IMHO are needed.

I swear I tried some early model NSX's and i wasn't really "BLOWN" away, driving the Na2 yes, I was, do I love both? YES, equally, but I needed to feel that I was getting into a FAR superior car than my S2000 @ that time.

Been more honest, I hope someday -work hard for that- to get a 91-94 .. swap an Na2 engine + 6speed + some form of FI and Track it.

So yes, both models are great for different uses, now, STOCK x STOCK, on the streets Na2 are far superior.

On the track, an Na1 chassis + Na2 engine etc is the ideal

MORE PERFECT = a ZANARDI MODEL, or some of those Na2 coupes for sale.

I love you all, don't get mad with me, but I see a pattern here of how the Na2-T cars are "less pure" which is not true, I repeat, I Adore the pre 97 NSX's as much as I do the pre 02.

Oscar

 

[shawn110975]

CAPTAINJMAN You got pulled over already? LOL I got pulled over with in a week of owning my NSX. so you beat me you have only had it like 5 days right? LOL tell us the story we love to hear these things.

But Dont lose control, I lost control when i turned the TCS off and tried to burn out, I burned out all right, did a 360 in the middle of the road, lucky i didnt hit anything. I will never do that again.

 

[captainjman]

1. I have a friend who told me he got an extra 20-30 HP by just doing a tune. So I thought I would ask if its true. I thought If I did a tune, perhaps I should dyno it to see what HP and Torque increases it created. I assume the car was tuned for performance already... maybe its more an issue with the chevy cobalt he drives.

2. My getting pulled over story: I really didnt even realize my speed was increasing until I saw the State Police car pull out from the center median and accelerate to intercept. Seems traffic was doing about 65 to 70 when I first got on the expressway. Then cars started pulling up and speeding ahead... Before I knew it I was doing three digits. It was so smooth that I didnt even realize it at all. It seemed safer at 100 than my 3.2TLS felt at 75. So smooth, no shaking, solid... no sense of speed really.

Anyway, if you can beleive it, he let me go. I thought for sure I was toast when I saw him pull out and intercept, when I looked down and saw the speedometer reading.. I figured it would be worse than just a ticket.

Used the cruise control the last two days... but there is no law about how fast you get to the speed limit right?

 

[Big_D]

Originally Posted by Big_D

I bought a 91 because...

More headroom = PFFFF 0.3mm? OMG so much, I can wear a Viking Helmet lol! LOL...More like an inch and a half of additional clearance which is huge for tall guys
Lightest of all models = Lighter by 100 lb's (removing the a Targa cover + spare tire does the trick) but still SLOWER than a stock Na2 ...Ha ha I have my spare out too + Headers + Exhaust + TUNE = NA2 :smile:
Stiffer chassis than a T = I'll give you that, but unless you race you NSX @ the nationals you will not really feel any performance loss...I have to disagree...its noticable in the twisties. No squeeking with a coupe either :wink:
Less expensive to buy = THAT'S IT ...I liked having more $$$ left over for improvements
OBD1- can custom tune ECU = PFFF Unless you are with BIG Turbos you don't really care about it...LOL...it makes a noticable difference on NA applications with supporting Mods.

Let's be Honest here, I didn't buy a 2001 because of price, that's why I got my 97, I don't really care about 02+ b/c of the bug eyes, which look fantastic, but also I am afraid they look a bit "forced" ... but I did get a lot of the 02+ things in my car -such wheels, rear valance, taillights etc - that IMHO are needed.

I swear I tried some early model NSX's and i wasn't really "BLOWN" away, driving the Na2 yes, I was, do I love both? YES, equally, but I needed to feel that I was getting into a FAR superior car than my S2000 @ that time.

Been more honest, I hope someday -work hard for that- to get a 91-94 .. swap an Na2 engine + 6speed + some form of FI and Track it.

So yes, both models are great for different uses, now, STOCK x STOCK, on the streets Na2 are far superior.

On the track, an Na1 chassis + Na2 engine etc is the ideal

MORE PERFECT = a ZANARDI MODEL, or some of those Na2 coupes for sale.

I love you all, don't get mad with me, but I see a pattern here of how the Na2-T cars are "less pure" which is not true, I repeat, I Adore the pre 97 NSX's as much as I do the pre 02.

Oscar

I made a few comments :wink:

Sure Stock vs Stock NA2 has 20 more HP. But it has been repeatedly demonstrated that NA1 with headers or NA2 manifolds makes up the difference. This isn't a war between NA1 and NA2, but noteworthy differences why NA1 people chose what they did... Its not just all about price.

1. I have a friend who told me he got an extra 20-30 HP by just doing a tune. So I thought I would ask if its true. I thought If I did a tune, perhaps I should dyno it to see what HP and Torque increases it created. I assume the car was tuned for performance already... maybe its more an issue with the chevy cobalt he drives.

2. My getting pulled over story: I really didnt even realize my speed was increasing until I saw the State Police car pull out from the center median and accelerate to intercept. Seems traffic was doing about 65 to 70 when I first got on the expressway. Then cars started pulling up and speeding ahead... Before I knew it I was doing three digits. It was so smooth that I didnt even realize it at all. It seemed safer at 100 than my 3.2TLS felt at 75. So smooth, no shaking, solid... no sense of speed really.

Anyway, if you can beleive it, he let me go. I thought for sure I was toast when I saw him pull out and intercept, when I looked down and saw the speedometer reading.. I figured it would be worse than just a ticket.

Used the cruise control the last two days... but there is no law about how fast you get to the speed limit right?

The NSX is well tuned in stock form so there are not many gains to be had like other cars. Typical gains for a ECU ROM tune is around 5-10 HP...and that is with Headers and good exhaust. Same thing to be said about aftermarket intakes...they actually make you lose HP.

 

[docjohn]

For the newbs:wink: on obd-2 cars 95 and up there really isn't anything to tune.You can add ihe but the brains are not worth messing with.I at one time had cams and a port polish job along with ihe on my 96 and dynoed at 293 to the wheels,but that setup was expensive to do and for around the same total $ I could have just slapped on a CT blower...of course I would then be a FI pu%$y...:tongue:

 

[tbromley]

>>It is well known that older Porsches exhibit a fun factor that exceeds the new ones. Whether it be better steering/brake feel, less electronic interaction or better turn-in feel, these are all true. I'd take an RS America over a GT3 any day. <O></O>

I agree 100% with this statement! Well except for the RS over the GT3 - ummmmm no way. The RS although a neat car is just a stripped down version of the 964 and it cost more money and you could put all the the things they stripped out back on if you wanted - radio, ac, etc. Great car but I'll take a 993 over any 964 anyday and run rings around it. But the GT3 is a great car and it even sounds good and if you think that all that electronic "stuff" doesn't have a place in the car - well you need to drive one. Now with that said I'll take say a 72T with upgrades or better still just a stock 73S or even a 72 or 71S or how bout a 72RS - yeah - want the raw feel and long hood look - that's the car and that's raw! The RS is a cool car but the 993 was a huge step forward with its multi link rear suspension. It is true, however, that with everything gained something is lost! I'll be the first to admit and agree with that!
<O></O>
When the first water cooled 911 was driven, almost everyone agreed the car lacked feel and had too many driver aids to be a real Porsche. In my opinion everyone buying a new Porsche has "settled" for something they think is a real Porsche but will never know what they are missing until they drive an air cooled example. <O></O>

Yeah, they said that at first - not now with the 997.2! The first water coolers had tons of problems and did until the 997 and even it had problems - like the RMS or the intermediate shaft bearing failure - read - ENGINE BLOW on the bearing deal for the 996 and even into the first 997s! Wouldn't have one - but the new one is promising. I'd still love to have a stable where I could have a 67S and etc., ending with a Carrera S. Don't forget - Walter Rohl - Porsche test car man and great racer - is now driving a new Turbo with -----PDK - paddle shifters -yep that's right! Course he gets super discounts - right. But here's a man that has driven them all.
<O></O>
Having said all this, I believe the first generation NSX's are the best buy. Take money out of the equation. The next generation of any vehicle will always lose its original essence....think E30 M3 vs E46. <O></O>
<O></O>
If you pay a bit more for a pristine early model, you will experience the essence of what the original designers had in mind for the NSX. <O></O>

OK, sure get the pristine model that is perfect has had all the maintenance brought up to date - just perfect - right - OK - now go find me one! I mean I'm with you there - low price - entry level - perfect condition - they come along once in a blue moon!

The point was in my advice that I believe you missed is this - cause your example is the mega exception- by getting the newest model you have more time before you have to do expensive maintenance - that was the point. The other point is this - the later model got you a targa roof, more power/displacement and a 6 speed and the interior is nicer - for most drivers - that's a nice trade up! Now does that mean I don't like my 91 - NO - not at all - I love my 91 - but is it getting a bit old - yes - did it need lots of maintenance - enough, yes and it came with a pile of receipts and only 42k on the odo. I still spent 6k on the car and now have 34k in a 91 - is that a good deal ???? Could I sell it for that??? You tell me.

So point I'm trying to make and that Bruce Anderson was trying to make with that "buy the newest model and best example you can afford" goes for any point you choose to enter the market! Buy the best example and newest cause you'll have less problems and have a "better" car - subjective statement perhaps.

Many don't want a project car - many just want a new car with the latest and greatest and the last of the NSXs fits that bill for them. That's what I meant. Now for those that want to mod their cars - well I might recommend an entirely different tact. For those that want a car they can afford cause they can't buy the latest model with the lowest miles - they might opt for your idea - a low mile early model in perfect shape and they might wait to get one for - ooooohhh I'd say 2 years and maybe more. Time is moving on and those low mile pristine early cars are fast fading away and those that remain are in the hands of individuals that WANT them. That's my guess.

So tell us - How long did it take you to find your pristine perfect "red" one? Just give us the particulars of that car - and remember red is the easiest to find - cause they're more of them it seems. You try that with white and see what you get? I've seen really one in the last year that I had to have and it was gone in 12 hours! Every other low miler I found needed a ton of maintenance cause nothing was done and the dealer - right dealer cause they're apparently the ones that get them- wanted a SUPER premium for em even with the maintenance not done - most aren't willing - me included- to bite on that - most are willing to spend 40k+ on a 93. Not when my good buddy here in Atlanta found a 2004 in the 40k range with 23k miles on it. That's what I'm talkin bout - now those deals don't grow on trees either - he got a super deal, admittedly. Might cost anyone else more - but I think that more folks would agree with me on the latest model best example you can afford deal. And that statement runs the gammut - it actually includes your example - so in the final analysis we most likely agree with one another.
<O></O>
<O></O>
I believe Richard Hammond put it best on his test drive of the Type R: The car has become nothing more than an engineer's play thing. <O></O>[/QUOTE]

Now, you can't be saying you wouldn't want one - could you??? LHD that is..... I mean an R - late model - R - you wouldn't like to have that? How bout the first gen R ???? I'll take either one but I can't afford either - so it's moot. Richard Hammond slammed the R - he was a turkey for that! I know everyone would agree with me there! Well most anyway.

Love discussions like this - no dis MakemineRed. I like your posts and I think we are both pretty much on the same page if we were talking to one another. So long for now.

Tim

 

[rbilder]

Used the cruise control the last two days... but there is no law about how fast you get to the speed limit right?

I don't believe so, as long as your tires don't break the pavement... if so they could get you for negligent or reckless driving.

I was pulled over on my maiden journey bringing it home through Utah. But was let go after receiving some grief from the State Patrol.

 

[MakeMineRed]

<O></O>

I agree 100% with this statement! Well except for the RS over the GT3 - ummmmm no way. The RS although a neat car is just a stripped down version of the 964 and it cost more money and you could put all the the things they stripped out back on if you wanted - radio, ac, etc. Great car but I'll take a 993 over any 964 anyday and run rings around it. But the GT3 is a great car and it even sounds good and if you think that all that electronic "stuff" doesn't have a place in the car - well you need to drive one. Now with that said I'll take say a 72T with upgrades or better still just a stock 73S or even a 72 or 71S or how bout a 72RS - yeah - want the raw feel and long hood look - that's the car and that's raw! The RS is a cool car but the 993 was a huge step forward with its multi link rear suspension. It is true, however, that with everything gained something is lost! I'll be the first to admit and agree with that!

<O></O>
<O></O>
I may have taken this a bit too far. You are correct, I would probably opt for a new GT3 as well. However, from an aesthetic point on view, I'm all over the RS America....in red. It's interesting because the market for those cars is much like our NSX's. There are a group of people who keep the RS America in the catastrophic price range they are. It's almost as if the America is its own niche above and beyond typical Porsche owners. <O></O>
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<O></O>

<O></O>

<O> </O>
Yeah, they said that at first - not now with the 997.2! The first water coolers had tons of problems and did until the 997 and even it had problems - like the RMS or the intermediate shaft bearing failure - read - ENGINE BLOW on the bearing deal for the 996 and even into the first 997s! Wouldn't have one - but the new one is promising. I'd still love to have a stable where I could have a 67S and etc., ending with a Carrera S. Don't forget - Walter Rohl - Porsche test car man and great racer - is now driving a new Turbo with -----PDK - paddle shifters -yep that's right! Course he gets super discounts - right. But here's a man that has driven them all.

<O></O>
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<O></O>
I worked for Porsche for some years and have driven everything from Carrera S to the GT3 to the almighty Carrera GT. The S just doesn't do it for me anymore. I would take a 2003 C4S over a 2010 only because I find the design more appealing and the driving characteristics, believe it or not, remind me more of a 993. <O></O>
<O> </O>

<O></O>

<O></O>
OK, sure get the pristine model that is perfect has had all the maintenance brought up to date - just perfect - right - OK - now go find me one! I mean I'm with you there - low price - entry level - perfect condition - they come along once in a blue moon! <O></O>
The point was in my advice that I believe you missed is this - cause your example is the mega exception- by getting the newest model you have more time before you have to do expensive maintenance - that was the point. The other point is this - the later model got you a targa roof, more power/displacement and a 6 speed and the interior is nicer - for most drivers - that's a nice trade up! Now does that mean I don't like my 91 - NO - not at all - I love my 91 - but is it getting a bit old - yes - did it need lots of maintenance - enough, yes and it came with a pile of receipts and only 42k on the odo. I still spent 6k on the car and now have 34k in a 91 - is that a good deal ???? Could I sell it for that??? You tell me. <O></O>
So point I'm trying to make and that Bruce Anderson was trying to make with that "buy the newest model and best example you can afford" goes for any point you choose to enter the market! Buy the best example and newest cause you'll have less problems and have a "better" car - subjective statement perhaps. <O></O>
Many don't want a project car - many just want a new car with the latest and greatest and the last of the NSXs fits that bill for them. That's what I meant. Now for those that want to mod their cars - well I might recommend an entirely different tact. For those that want a car they can afford cause they can't buy the latest model with the lowest miles - they might opt for your idea - a low mile early model in perfect shape and they might wait to get one for - ooooohhh I'd say 2 years and maybe more. Time is moving on and those low mile pristine early cars are fast fading away and those that remain are in the hands of individuals that WANT them. That's my guess. <O></O>
So tell us - How long did it take you to find your pristine perfect "red" one? Just give us the particulars of that car - and remember red is the easiest to find - cause they're more of them it seems. You try that with white and see what you get? I've seen really one in the last year that I had to have and it was gone in 12 hours! Every other low miler I found needed a ton of maintenance cause nothing was done and the dealer - right dealer cause they're apparently the ones that get them- wanted a SUPER premium for em even with the maintenance not done - most aren't willing - me included- to bite on that - most are willing to spend 40k+ on a 93. Not when my good buddy here in Atlanta found a 2004 in the 40k range with 23k miles on it. That's what I'm talkin bout - now those deals don't grow on trees either - he got a super deal, admittedly. Might cost anyone else more - but I think that more folks would agree with me on the latest model best example you can afford deal. And that statement runs the gammut - it actually includes your example - so in the final analysis we most likely agree with one another.

<O></O>
<O></O>
My car isn't 100% pristine, but damn close. Literally a time capsule car in that the interior looks, smells and feels newer than some 2003/4's I have come across. When I purchased it, it had the timing belt, valves and oil changes documented. The key remotes for the car didn't even have a scratch on them! The car fax was in order as well. The peculiar thing, however, was the car was dirtier than I expected. It did take a good 12 hours of detailing to "virginize" her to my likes. I've noticed that people who don't drive their cars much (my 93 had 24,000 miles) sometimes let their cars sit and don't mind dust/dirt build up. Under that dirt, however, was a new car. My debate right now is whether to modify her or not. Some days I look at her 15" wheels in disgust. Others, I find the thought appealing as a "stock" vehicle. As for the Red, it's all I buy. My S4's, 968's, RX7's and BMW’s have all been red. <O></O>
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<O></O>

<O></O>

<O> </O>
Now, you can't be saying you wouldn't want one - could you??? LHD that is..... I mean an R - late model - R - you wouldn't like to have that? How bout the first gen R ???? I'll take either one but I can't afford either - so it's moot. Richard Hammond slammed the R - he was a turkey for that!I know everyone would agree with me there! Well most anyway.<O></O>
Love discussions like this - no dis MakemineRed. I like your posts and I think we are both pretty much on the same page if we were talking to one another. So long for now.<O></O>
Tim

<O></O>
<O></O>
I can't honestly say yes or no on that one. I felt a "confused" Richard Hammond while I watched that episode. I don't think he wanted to say those things about the Type R because of his respect for the NSX. However, the truth came out. It think it was a suggestion to HONDA to offer something fresh and new. He had probably just driven a Koenigg or something else just before, who knows. <O></O>
<O></O>
<O></O>
What he did forget, however, is that the NSX is STILL one of the most well rounded vehicles you can buy. I often tell my clients that most 10 or 15 year old BMW/MERCEDES you see driving around are better than most new cars. <O></O>
<O></O>
With the NSX, at 20 years old, is better than most new cars that haven't even gone into production yet. <O></O>
<O></O>
Top Gear does a good job of testing their cars. They won't compare two cars and the winner goes to the least expensive one (see Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track) Having said that, I think we should all take "maintenance" out of the equation when comparing. There are some 91's who have just had enough routine maintenance to put them in better mechanical condition than some 2004's who haven't seen a new TB/waterpump yet. <O></O>
</O<v:shape></O<v:shape>

 

[ChopsJazz]

What does this :tongue:>:tongue:> mean?

And why do you have to do it so often?

Seriously, it is difficult to read your posts with all this :tongue:>:tongue:> stuff going on.

 

[spase]

>>ha>>ha>>ha:biggrin:

 

[tbromley]

What does this :tongue:>:tongue:> mean?

And why do you have to do it so often?

Seriously, it is difficult to read your posts with all this :tongue:>:tongue:> stuff going on.

I'm not sure who you are talking to Chops? I think it is someone sticking thier tongue out. Don't particularly understand it either. Oh well - onward...

Anyway, back to topic - I am glad to get the perspective on the NA1 vs NA2 from my friend Oscar - cause he states something that I always wondered about.

Now Big D, Dennis, countered with "if you put headers on or NA2 manifold you get the same hp - do you really? You said later that by tuning the ECU you might get 5 to 10 with headers - is that extra to what the headers put on? I'm just curious if anyone has dynoed the NA1 post header installation. I have Comptech headers and I don't know cause I've never driven a stock one. I'm glad I have the headers.

On the other hand I've always heard "there's no replacement for displacement" and therefore find it hard to believe that a simple add on like headers is going to take the place of .2 litres of displacment. Do you have anything to say to that Oscar. I also would say that I would almost bet half the added power Oscar is feeling is due to the gearing of the 6 speed. Don't you guys agree. I mean I keep hearing from many sources that the biggest bang for your buck are JDM gears or short gears and R&P with different final drives - I am reluctant to go to lower final drive - I like the tall 5th and feel it is needed for economy on the highway. Anyone care to comment on that.

Can you put in the shorter gears - some of them - and keep 5th - and maybe still do R&P but not the 4.4 but say closer to 4.0? I'm just trying to get more of the torque and power band in my first 4 gears - actually just 2, 3 and 4. I like the tall 1rst. I would love to hear what you guys have to say on that. Thanks everyone.

 

[MakeMineRed]

What does this :tongue:>:tongue:> mean?

And why do you have to do it so often?

Seriously, it is difficult to read your posts with all this :tongue:>:tongue:> stuff going on.

Sorry about my posts but I don't know why my computer is doing this to my posts. Everytime a make a new paragraph, I get the these weird symbols in between.

 

[oscar_driver]

Sorry about my posts but I don't know why my computer is doing this to my posts. Everytime a make a new paragraph, I get the these weird symbols in between.

BAHAHHA Awesome, I thought you were been extra googly crazy like:

<object width="512" height="296"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hulu.com/embed/JT14-vlfFLr0Q8QuNBXTCA"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/JT14-vlfFLr0Q8QuNBXTCA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" width="512" height="296"></embed></object>

 

[tbromley]

BAHAHHA Awesome, I thought you were been extra googly crazy like:

<EMBED src=http://www.hulu.com/embed/JT14-vlfFLr0Q8QuNBXTCA width=512 height=296 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowFullScreen="true"></EMBED>

Oscar will you quit being so crazy and answer my question - I'ma talkin to you in my last email....lol. Pretty funny dude! Now get back to work ....:biggrin: Man it's like pulling hen's teeth around here to get a proper answer.........lol. :smile:

 

[Big_D]

I'm not sure who you are talking to Chops? I think it is someone sticking thier tongue out. Don't particularly understand it either. Oh well - onward...

Anyway, back to topic - I am glad to get the perspective on the NA1 vs NA2 from my friend Oscar - cause he states something that I always wondered about.

Now Big D, Dennis, countered with "if you put headers on or NA2 manifold you get the same hp - do you really? You said later that by tuning the ECU you might get 5 to 10 with headers - is that extra to what the headers put on? I'm just curious if anyone has dynoed the NA1 post header installation. I have Comptech headers and I don't know cause I've never driven a stock one. I'm glad I have the headers.

On the other hand I've always heard "there's no replacement for displacement" and therefore find it hard to believe that a simple add on like headers is going to take the place of .2 litres of displacment. Do you have anything to say to that Oscar. I also would say that I would almost bet half the added power Oscar is feeling is due to the gearing of the 6 speed. Don't you guys agree. I mean I keep hearing from many sources that the biggest bang for your buck are JDM gears or short gears and R&P with different final drives - I am reluctant to go to lower final drive - I like the tall 5th and feel it is needed for economy on the highway. Anyone care to comment on that.

Can you put in the shorter gears - some of them - and keep 5th - and maybe still do R&P but not the 4.4 but say closer to 4.0? I'm just trying to get more of the torque and power band in my first 4 gears - actually just 2, 3 and 4. I like the tall 1rst. I would love to hear what you guys have to say on that. Thanks everyone.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a before and after dyno when I had my headers installed. My NSX tech doesn't offer dynos on the weekdays and thats when I had them installed. I wanted to but had no choice :frown:.

The next opportunity for me was when I installed my ProSpeed Stage 2 ECU ROM. Here is the dyno plot. The only difference between runs was swapping the stock ECU for another with the chip already installed.

We noticed that each run after that was making a little mor HP as the ECU was learning the new ROM. The graph is from my 3rd and final run. The chip itself netted me about 5 HP in the midrange RPM which is what I was after.

I have read that the headers alone will get you 15-20 HP depending on the brand and the ECU Tune gets you another 5-10 depending on the exhaust you have. So that is more than enough to make up the difference between a NA1 with headers and a ECU ROM tune and a stock NA2.

Related threads:

Wiki
http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Headers

I/H/E thread
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=991956

NA1 vs. NA2 headers
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=800328

 

[Ty B]

...I keep hearing from many sources that the biggest bang for your buck are JDM gears or short gears and R&P with different final drives - I am reluctant to go to lower final drive - I like the tall 5th and feel it is needed for economy on the highway. Anyone care to comment on that.

Can you put in the shorter gears - some of them - and keep 5th - and maybe still do R&P but not the 4.4 but say closer to 4.0? I'm just trying to get more of the torque and power band in my first 4 gears - actually just 2, 3 and 4. I like the tall 1rst. I would love to hear what you guys have to say on that. Thanks everyone.

Read this #1
Read this #2
and since my views might be suspect or seem unreliable
Read Billy #3 Post #18

 

[warrenw]

Let's be Honest here, I didn't buy a 2001 because of price, that's why I got my 97, I don't really care about 02+ b/c of the bug eyes, which look fantastic, but also I am afraid they look a bit "forced" ... but I did get a lot of the 02+ things in my car -such wheels, rear valance, taillights etc - that IMHO are needed.

I swear I tried some early model NSX's and i wasn't really "BLOWN" away, driving the Na2 yes, I was, do I love both? YES, equally, but I needed to feel that I was getting into a FAR superior car than my S2000 @ that time.

Been more honest, I hope someday -work hard for that- to get a 91-94 .. swap an Na2 engine + 6speed + some form of FI and Track it.

So yes, both models are great for different uses, now, STOCK x STOCK, on the streets Na2 are far superior.

On the track, an Na1 chassis + Na2 engine etc is the ideal

MORE PERFECT = a ZANARDI MODEL, or some of those Na2 coupes for sale.

I love you all, don't get mad with me, but I see a pattern here of how the Na2-T cars are "less pure" which is not true, I repeat, I Adore the pre 97 NSX's as much as I do the pre 02.

Oscar

Agree...
Now I just have to find that 2001 manual coupe. like the hide-aways (best of both worlds) Not many to choose from: 1 in white. "WHITENSXs" owns it.

 

[oscar_driver]

On the other hand I've always heard "there's no replacement for displacement" and therefore find it hard to believe that a simple add on like headers is going to take the place of .2 litres of displacment. Do you have anything to say to that Oscar. I also would say that I would almost bet half the added power Oscar is feeling is due to the gearing of the 6 speed.

Well, little extra TQ and and HP always comes good ... I dinoed mine on the very conservative DINODYNAMICS @ 260 @ the wheels .. the only other NSX i have driven was a full stock Na2, and it felt a bit slower.

Agree that the 6speed might be one of the biggest factors here.

Oscar

 

[Big_D]

These dyno sheets tell the story. On the same day several cars were run. It documents a nice assortment of Stock NA1s, Stock NA2s, NA1s with just exhaust, some with both headers and exhaust, some with just intakes, one with Nitrous, and some with SuperChargers.

You will notice that the intakes didn't improve anything. One NA1 had RM Headers and Exhaust and produced really low numbers. I would have been dissappointed. I think the DCs and Compthechs are a better design having the O2 sensor in the collector and not one single tube.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/images/NSteXpo2002_DynoReport.pdf

 

[Honcho]

On the other hand I've always heard "there's no replacement for displacement" and therefore find it hard to believe that a simple add on like headers is going to take the place of .2 litres of displacment. Do you have anything to say to that Oscar. I also would say that I would almost bet half the added power Oscar is feeling is due to the gearing of the 6 speed. Don't you guys agree. I mean I keep hearing from many sources that the biggest bang for your buck are JDM gears or short gears and R&P with different final drives - I am reluctant to go to lower final drive - I like the tall 5th and feel it is needed for economy on the highway. Anyone care to comment on that.

Can you put in the shorter gears - some of them - and keep 5th - and maybe still do R&P but not the 4.4 but say closer to 4.0? I'm just trying to get more of the torque and power band in my first 4 gears - actually just 2, 3 and 4. I like the tall 1rst. I would love to hear what you guys have to say on that. Thanks everyone.

Tim-

Most of the power increase in the NA2 comes from the tube headers. The 0.2L increase was primarily done to increase the engine torque, which was a complaint by many U.S. customers (sort of like the S2000 later). As for the gears, I've been doing some more research. It turns out that the 4.235 R&P was added to the NSX-R because race drivers were complaining that the NSX was sluggish on uphill sections of the track in 4th and 5th gear. Normally, the solution would have been to just increase engine power. However, at the time, Honda was still subject to the "gentleman's agreement" limiting power to 276- they couldn't add power. So, they reduced the final gear ratio to add more driven torque to the wheels. This made the car quicker on the uphill sections in high gear.

So, I think just the short gears are the way to go because we are not restricted on adding power to our NSX's. Your Comptech headers do the same job as the 4.235 R&P.

 

[lightguy]

I find manual steering and hard top of the early cars to be a plus.
3.2 capacity and an extra cog would be nice admittedly so the Zanardi is possibly the "best" NSX.
With the advent of great suspensions, killer light weight wheels with big tires, and Turbo/SC availability the NSX has been brought into the 21st century if you want to go there.

1st, Middle, or 02+ series are all basically the same.
I lean towards the "pure" <95.