After reading the post Gene came up with, those numbers were also with a built motor.diablo2469 said:was that 390hp RWHP? or at the crank?
Armando
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The Cartek Turbo kit...... ??
- Thread starter NSXTASY_MD
- Start date
Armando
MiamieNeSeX said:
I don't think so.
"With the new set-up, we were making approximately 390rwhp on a 1991 NSX. On a 97 with upgraded Aerodyne turbo and our custom built 3.2L engine we made 400rwhp @4-5psi."
I took the Built motor to be on the 97 NSX, not the 91 that made 390rwhp. Maybe they both were built motors.
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So I don't go hunting through all three posts, which one refers to a built motor?MiamieNeSeX said:
Miami NSX...you sound resentful toward paying a billion dollars for your "b*tch boost supercharger kit"-BBSC to get it right with ALL it's issues. (and lets not open a discussion on them, we've gone over them a zillion times) I'm asking for open minded comments from people whom HAVE the turbo kit or are interested in turbocharging* The lack of area under the curve makes most supercharger kits quite unattractive to me. At $7500 for the entire kit (AEM included**) it priced thousands less than ANY other F/I option out there. This kit with T28's will push close to 400RWHP with great tune (AEM) on the stock motor! After talking to a rep this afternoon again, I in fact verified that it should be good for 380-400 RWHP in its lastest form with the proper AEM tune. I don't know who you go to but I can have a bolt on kit like this installed for $800-$1000 and another $500 for AEM dyno tuning...done** $7500 + 1000 + $500 = $9000 for an AEM TUNED 400RWHP TWIN TURBO *torquey* intercooled kit out the door. Even FX's 400 kit will have to be installed in-house which will cost most member thousands back and forth in shipping charges and hence be more expensive overall. Not to mention many people are not comfortble with the idea of shipping their NSX's across the country back and forth just to have a kit installed. I think this package could potentially revolutionize the F/I route that most members take. (as going the full FX 500 route with all the other needed upgrades like BBK is a little too extreme for most)
PS: ..Just throwin' some humour with my BBSC comment...even thou it doesn't hold a candle to turbocharging that X :biggrin:
PS: ..Just throwin' some humour with my BBSC comment...even thou it doesn't hold a candle to turbocharging that X :biggrin:
You just did! Ut-ohNSXTASY_MD said:
Okay, okay - let's stop the madness before it starts. Please govern yourself accordingly! :smile:
NSXTASY_MD said:
I don't know what you mean by "getting it right" mines "never been wrong".
As a hush fall over the crowd, not to many Cartec kits out there. The grass is not always greener on the other side. Although it might be faster at Factor X.
OK
Paper and phone calls can probably push this any every other kit to over 600 RWHP. How many are street proven?
The 1500.00 for the installation was quoted from their site, the 1000.00 for tuning is from experience. How much did you spend last time you tuned your FI AEM car?
Humor is good as long as you can take it as well as dish it
Armando
All right guys, here's my take.
I have the original Bell designed kit on my car. My aerodynes failed and no one was working on them at the time. I spoke with Cartech (Mike) at great length, and they were in the process of retrofitting the T28's to the old Bell kit, but had quite a bit of work to do. (Tim's car) I didn't want to wait, so I had some Mitsu 14g's installed. The big hold up was the oil return system (which I'm still not convinced Cartech has figured out, in that I had installed their oil return system and it didn't work--at least for me). The rest of the kit is Corky Bells plumbing and intercoolers (which are pretty good), the AEM (which seems to be fine when properly tuned), and some injectors. So, if they have the oil return system figured out, this should work pretty well. FWIW, I was laying down 408 hp, 320 ft # torque on stock internals with this kit using different turbos (with 8.8 psi peak). My motor finally gave up the ghost, but not after plenty of track and hard street use.
Anyway, IMO, this looks to be a viable inexpensive option. You'll end up greedy (as I am) and will have your car at Gerrys (where mine is) getting a motor build to wick up your boost, which with the right impellers should be considerably better than the 390 rwhp as indicated.
Happy motoring,
Ben
I have the original Bell designed kit on my car. My aerodynes failed and no one was working on them at the time. I spoke with Cartech (Mike) at great length, and they were in the process of retrofitting the T28's to the old Bell kit, but had quite a bit of work to do. (Tim's car) I didn't want to wait, so I had some Mitsu 14g's installed. The big hold up was the oil return system (which I'm still not convinced Cartech has figured out, in that I had installed their oil return system and it didn't work--at least for me). The rest of the kit is Corky Bells plumbing and intercoolers (which are pretty good), the AEM (which seems to be fine when properly tuned), and some injectors. So, if they have the oil return system figured out, this should work pretty well. FWIW, I was laying down 408 hp, 320 ft # torque on stock internals with this kit using different turbos (with 8.8 psi peak). My motor finally gave up the ghost, but not after plenty of track and hard street use.
Anyway, IMO, this looks to be a viable inexpensive option. You'll end up greedy (as I am) and will have your car at Gerrys (where mine is) getting a motor build to wick up your boost, which with the right impellers should be considerably better than the 390 rwhp as indicated.
Happy motoring,
Ben
...Last month on a single turbo supra I sold to one of my clients....I have three or four of my vehicles tuned on AEM's every year (I'm a specialty auto dealer btw) It's not the big deal you make it out to be...everyone's qualified to tune an AEM these days. (as their so popular on so many different models)MiamieNeSeX said:
You've got me on that being this is essentially a NEW kit in the form we're disscussing about....just as the FX400 was once "new" right before it blew every SC package on earth away. I'm just talkin about doing the same thing for less... (value shopping) ...and with an AEM being included in this "kit"...any experienced AEM tuner can tune your car....house visits from the pope himself *cough* i mean Mark Basch aren't required :wink:MiamieNeSex said:
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NSXTASY_MD said:
Which is it then? Is it, Anyone can tune (insert fuel management system here) or is it Any Experienced AEM tuner
. Although Mark is a good guy and designed an excellent alternative cost effective FI system, there are many that are more experienced with the AEM system.Armando
jorligan has this setup and his NSX. His car was being worked on during NSXPO 04 so he drove down in the sick NOBLE! Anyways he knew alot about FI NSX's so any imput by him would be most helpful. :smile: Group buy would be interesting for mid $6k's..
Please chime in "Jorligan" ! I would love to hear about your experiences with the package...BRIDGEWATER ACURA said:
Honestly Armando, Mark IS a great guy and I have no doubt he's a top notch tuner...but that BBSC kit is MAD ghetto, lol....SS-box that only he can tune correctly, a centrifugal supercharger that belongs on a rustang**, a pole across the top of the motor, no power below 5000rpm!....i've seen better upgrades built on "Monster garage" ROFL :biggrin: I'd rather put my money into a well engineered turbo kit for a well engineered car :wink:MiamieNeSeX said:
...sorry, don't mean to hijack my own thread, lol....Cartek/Corky bell experienced X'ers come in**
NSXTASY_MD said:
It's your opinion and everyone has them,(if memory serves right opinions have been compared to a certain body part) and although I dont take anything written here personally as I didnt design the system I just made it run right. Good luck in reaching the end of the rainbow.
Armando
I would think that the cartek system tuned would hand most any BBSC NSX its ass in a straight line. I could be wrong though.
At least we have a lot of different solutions for forced induction available for the NSX. I cannot wait to see what someone comes up with next! :wink:
At least we have a lot of different solutions for forced induction available for the NSX. I cannot wait to see what someone comes up with next! :wink:
Let's get ready to RRRuummmble. :smile:
Actually, guys I am glad to see that so many others are "Using the force" That way if we all blow them up we will have company in one form or another. :biggrin:
There are those that are still on the fence, :wink: Read, if this system were $5500, they would still continue to just talk about buying it. I appreciate every one of the tuners that have been brave enough to supply an alternative to normal aspiration. I have truly learned a lot about the NSX and force-feeding it over the last 2 years or so.
What I would also like to hear is from someone that Has FI that has actually taken their motor apart just to see if there were any ill effects going on. Whatever the system may be.
The Cartech system, if nothing else, looks to be a pretty balanced and reserved system. I would have considered it if it were at this point 10 months ago. Wait, it was only 390 at the wheels/crank. Has anyone with a built motor tested the system? NSXluver, is your motor built?
At least it has bought something new to talk about on the FI forum. I love FI Porn!!!
Actually, guys I am glad to see that so many others are "Using the force" That way if we all blow them up we will have company in one form or another. :biggrin:
There are those that are still on the fence, :wink: Read, if this system were $5500, they would still continue to just talk about buying it. I appreciate every one of the tuners that have been brave enough to supply an alternative to normal aspiration. I have truly learned a lot about the NSX and force-feeding it over the last 2 years or so.
What I would also like to hear is from someone that Has FI that has actually taken their motor apart just to see if there were any ill effects going on. Whatever the system may be.
The Cartech system, if nothing else, looks to be a pretty balanced and reserved system. I would have considered it if it were at this point 10 months ago. Wait, it was only 390 at the wheels/crank. Has anyone with a built motor tested the system? NSXluver, is your motor built?
At least it has bought something new to talk about on the FI forum. I love FI Porn!!!
MiamieNeSeX said:
Hmm... I'll pass on that
Par for the courseNetViper said:Hmm... I'll pass on that
Armando
NSXTASY_MD said:
now, come on.. i agree that "looks" in all respects is a subjective thing, but If you are going to moan about a "pole across the engine" how come i don't hear whining about the "big black box on the engine" for the ctsc or the "tangle of big piping" from GMSC? I personally love the way it looks, and i'm not saying that because i like mark. I don't care for the looks of the ctsc, tho i do really like the looks of the gmsc. and iirc, the old "pole across the engine" is actually used by comtech for one of their SC setups in the acura/honda lineup... And the "No power" at less than 5k is completely incorrect. I appreciate you may be exaggerating to make your point, but my posted dyno proves otherwise.
Cheers all. dang it! where's andy vecsey when i need him to jump on someone?! hehe.
I can give a give a rats ass which is anyones favorite looking FI System (all relative)or who has more power down low or up high last time I looked I was the one writing the checks to pay for my HOBBY and as far as I'm concerned I am very happy with my bang for buck exchange. If a 5000.00 kit comes out you will probably be able to count on one hand how many line up to get it installed. As for the inevitable whose "Penis" is bigger then the next battle, its always amazing that no matter who starts the thread more time than not whichever is the flavor of the month FI kit it is compared to the BBSC.
Long Live Mark
Long Live Mark (from Dali)
Govern Yourself Accordingly
Armando
Long Live Mark
Long Live Mark (from Dali)
Govern Yourself Accordingly
Armando
I have the current Cartech turbo kit and Have already given my opinion so you should search or see the link by Gene (KGP). I paid 9K for my system and they have dropped the price to make it more competitive and now also include the AEM. I have the Rebic IV. All of the information on the Cartech site is worthless as it refers to the first system which uses the Aerodyne turbo system which is now unavailable. The dyno which is posted is completely false for the current system so any comparison to current superchargers or turbochargers is ridiculous. My car which has the 3.2L engine does not produce 390 HP at the wheels and the torque curve is pretty linear. I never dynoed my car prior to the installation of the turbo but it was faster than my E46 M3 in both 0-60 and quarter mile using a G-Tech? unit. The dyno on my car was around 360 RWHP and 275 torque. I would expect the AEM unit to produce more since my stock ECU was rechipped to retard at higher rpm and with the Rebic IV unit, I think that the far cylinders run lean and the near cylinders run rich as there was audible pinging despite a good A/F when running higher boost (>5 lbs).
My current experience with the system is still limited as I have driven less than 500 miles on the setup. After I got the car back, it ran like crap due to bad gas and dirty injectors, then I had an accident. Finally, after getting the car back, I drove it but it kept blowing oil. After completely re-designing the oiling system, it finally works. My oiling solution is different than NSXLOVER and completely different as compared to what is delivered in the kit. I am not sure if they changed the setup but as you can see from the post by Ben, he wasn't too happy with it either.
The current price seems to be pretty good and the installation should be straight forward for most people. This of course does not include the tuning of an AEM with which I have no experience. As far as I know, there is no "built motor" running a Cartech system. In the future, I am definitely planning on the HKS FCON ECU with larger injectors and hopefully more boost. I am still undecided about a built engine, possibly in the future. For those people who want the setup, I would recommend at least the GT-28 upgrade or better yet, if you are going to run a low boost system, GT-25 turbos but this will require different mounting flanges. Also, using an external wastegate would make more sense since I am not sure how each wastegate on the individual turbos is exactly the same. I am guessing that his would allow uneven spooling of the turbos.
On the exhaust, it is stainless steel and will drone from around 2500-3000 RPM stock. I had resonator tips installed at Midas and this removed the drone. Tim
My current experience with the system is still limited as I have driven less than 500 miles on the setup. After I got the car back, it ran like crap due to bad gas and dirty injectors, then I had an accident. Finally, after getting the car back, I drove it but it kept blowing oil. After completely re-designing the oiling system, it finally works. My oiling solution is different than NSXLOVER and completely different as compared to what is delivered in the kit. I am not sure if they changed the setup but as you can see from the post by Ben, he wasn't too happy with it either.
The current price seems to be pretty good and the installation should be straight forward for most people. This of course does not include the tuning of an AEM with which I have no experience. As far as I know, there is no "built motor" running a Cartech system. In the future, I am definitely planning on the HKS FCON ECU with larger injectors and hopefully more boost. I am still undecided about a built engine, possibly in the future. For those people who want the setup, I would recommend at least the GT-28 upgrade or better yet, if you are going to run a low boost system, GT-25 turbos but this will require different mounting flanges. Also, using an external wastegate would make more sense since I am not sure how each wastegate on the individual turbos is exactly the same. I am guessing that his would allow uneven spooling of the turbos.
On the exhaust, it is stainless steel and will drone from around 2500-3000 RPM stock. I had resonator tips installed at Midas and this removed the drone. Tim
I don't recall ever seeing a dyno posted by you, peiser? I remember that in your "BBSC dialed-in" thread that you mention you were going to post one, but I don't remember ever seeing it.peiserg said:
Anywho, I kinda liked the looks of the BBSC "pole" system too. Didn't care that much for how the pole inhibited changing the oil though.
When did you purchase your kit !? I'm trying to figure out the time-line to see if that issue has been addressed. How involved/difficult was this "re-design" of the oiling system you performed. And I would agree with you about the AEM equipped OBD-1 cars making more RWHP (at a better tune to boot)...tuning a stock OBD-II ECU is simply so limited & difficult. And having only one parameter to manipulate (timing) on it just makes it that bad. Glad to hear its running strong now thou for Ujorligan said:
nsxlover said:
How much rwhp are you putting out?
*sigh* i hate having to undo myself from my slumber to search, but I did, and here's my link
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34136&highlight=bbsc+dyno
that was my original setup i believe without cold air intake or aftercooler. I'm now dynoing 20-25 more hp and TQ across most of the RPM range after the aftercooler was placed and additional tuning done..
*edit*
:biggrin: I just have to throw this in there---> I guess gene's brain is slipping, since you actually posted in that thread (where i posted the dyno)
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34136&highlight=bbsc+dyno
that was my original setup i believe without cold air intake or aftercooler. I'm now dynoing 20-25 more hp and TQ across most of the RPM range after the aftercooler was placed and additional tuning done..
*edit*
:biggrin: I just have to throw this in there---> I guess gene's brain is slipping, since you actually posted in that thread (where i posted the dyno)
