Beta testing Enthusify as a new Classified Ad platform

[NSX Prime]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

As a vendor who obviously benefits from the site, why are you not more than just a registered user? I think that it is up to Lud to decide how to best proceed after all without him we wouldn't have the sandbox

Gentlemen! No need to get riled up here. I appreciate the support, don't get me wrong. But I did ask for feedback and people are simply presenting their opinions, which I value even if they don't agree with mine. NSX owners are typically smart, successful, and analytic folks who are used to questioning ideas and authority. I suspect the Enthusify folks may have found it overwhelming at first, but I am used to it after more than a decade of running the site. Ultimately whatever I do is unlikely to satisfy everyone, but at least I can take their opinion into consideration if they share it.

I know plenty of people recommend simply taking action and letting the inevitable uproar die down as most people accept the change and a few leave, but that is more of a business strategy and I generally approach running this site from more of a community angle... So I often like to gather input and THEN piss everyone off by taking the action ;-)

As for vendors - I don't require them to pay so there is nothing wrong with someone who operates as a vendor and does not contribute financially to the site, particularly a smaller "cottage industry" vendor who seems to provide an interesting service and I expect is not exactly getting rich from it. I know it irks some folks that some vendors get a "free ride" and I may be revisiting that policy for other reasons. But if I wanted to coerce them into paying I'd just cut to the chase require it up front.

 

[N Spec]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

As a vendor who obviously benefits from the site, why are you not more than just a registered user? I think that it is up to Lud to decide how to best proceed after all without him we wouldn't have the sandbox

I agree it is his site. I would still frequent the site with or without the marketplace.

Believe it or not, I don't benefit much if at all from the digital services I provide. I only made the page because of the forum rules and I only intended to help owners because these little, neat stuff intrigues me and I enjoy doing it during my free time. I've actually learned a lot from the window sticker replicating process and I am always still learning.

I honestly have probably only done up to not even $200 worth of services for people so far and that's well over a year's span. The prices I charge are fairly low considering the time I put it into doing the editing, renderings or modeling. Sometimes it would even cut into my work time, but it's not a big deal. I am not worried if I don't benefit too much from it, as I enjoy doing it as a hobby and not as a source of income - well not for this site anyways.

If I were to began a venture on this site where I would benefit or truly profit, my member status would definitely change. I am exploring some options, but I haven't exactly found any significant avenues to pursue. If this site was truly in need of funding to survive, then I would consider upgrading to support too.

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Let's say I list the item for sale and ask people to PM me who are interested. After about a week, I as a seller determine the item isn't selling and I want to close the thread. No fee correct?

However, what I'm doing as a seller is telling the buyer over the PM to save money and just PayPal me directly and I'll get the item to them, bypassing this Enthusify gig and additional fees. Buyer agrees since seller already has a reputation.

In that scenario, I completely bypassed the system, I can guarantee you - IT WILL HAPPEN ALL THE TIME IF WE USE THIS MODEL.

Also, how are transactions handled if a local buyer sees the ad and wants to swing by my house and just give me cash? No fee for you right, since we handled it direct?

People will shortcut the process to save money and deal more with local buyers than ever before. Mark my words.

 

[docjohn]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Let's say I list the item for sale and ask people to PM me who are interested. After about a week, I as a seller determine the item isn't selling and I want to close the thread. No fee correct?

However, what I'm doing as a seller is telling the buyer over the PM to save money and just PayPal me directly and I'll get the item to them, bypassing this Enthusify gig and additional fees. Buyer agrees since seller already has a reputation.

In that scenario, I completely bypassed the system, I can guarantee you - IT WILL HAPPEN ALL THE TIME IF WE USE THIS MODEL.

Also, how are transactions handled if a local buyer sees the ad and wants to swing by my house and just give me cash? No fee for you right, since we handled it direct?

People will shortcut the process to save money and deal more with local buyers than ever before. Mark my words.

sounds good to me, your scenario is what we kinda thought the marketplace would be after prime got rolling......known members selling amongst ourselves ect....but now it is a much different landscape,and with this economy I'm afraid that unscrupulous folks are willing to do anything for a buck. As Lud mentioned this thread from now on should be about members feedback on the enthusify software/format.

 

[N Spec]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Thank you for this pointed, constructive feedback. It is really helpful.

Based on input from other marketplaces, we included shipping for the fee calculation. In absence of doing so, we are told that sellers start unnecessarily gaming the system and shifting the selling price into the shipping fees. An earlier version of our software isolated fees to the selling price. Many mentors and forum partners suggested the current set up based on their experience.

The shipping fee discount should be an option for people shipping large items that cost more than, say $100. It's neglible for items where shipping costs are low. Charge the modest % fee upfront as usual. Have the seller fax or email a pic of the receipt of shipping charges within 14 days and apply the discount during the disbursement. This of course would only be truly significant if they are buying wheels, body kits or other products needing large packages.

HIJACKER is shining light on the elephant in the room. There will always be other ways. Any fees over the usual 3% will cause many members to find ways around the system. So it would be in your best interest to find an attractive fee.

Sellers can also subtlety list their email address or other contact info in pics of the product for sale. And if sellers can find ways around it, scammers can too! That is the biggest issue with the new proposed system. It brings you back to square one, leaving just as much room for scammers to do the same thing, they will always try to find a way. There will be "less" if any protection if they find a way around Enthusify or adding any additional party for escrow. Enthusify could then say use us or you will not be protected and that is in essence the same thing as admins posting be smart about scams. Some people just don't care and will take the gamble.

Again I only see Enthusify being viable with more expensive, high risk items and invigorating sellers to ship fast. Everything else is extra padding, complicating matters and only adding more possible parties that could botch something.

 

[NSX Prime]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Based on input from other marketplaces, we included shipping for the fee calculation. In absence of doing so, we are told that sellers start unnecessarily gaming the system and shifting the selling price into the shipping fees.

From my perspective it's an issue that is worth looking at, but it's probably well down the list below other issues like the overall fee schedule and some of the escrow stuff.

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Asking again since this either overlooked or avoided...

We did a survey of marketplace fees and also consulted with 50 forum owners and 100s of forum members in this and other communities before landing on our fee structure for version 1.

My question was:

Hi.

Could you please publish the results of this study as a PDF for us to view? Also, could you please outline the other forums that are currently using Enthusify?

I would like to see the formal study that you did along with a list of applicable forums. I would also like to know who is currently an actual CUSTOMER of this Marketplace design you're proposing.

 

[Panjo]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Let's say I list the item for sale and ask people to PM me who are interested. After about a week, I as a seller determine the item isn't selling and I want to close the thread. No fee correct?

correct. no fee.

Also, how are transactions handled if a local buyer sees the ad and wants to swing by my house and just give me cash? No fee for you right, since we handled it direct?

correct. no fee.

Asking again since this either overlooked or avoided... I would like to see the formal study that you did along with a list of applicable forums. I would also like to know who is currently an actual CUSTOMER of this Marketplace design you're proposing.

Avoid HIJACKER? Never! I am a fan. I appreciate all your feedback and commentary. Both the results of the study and our customer and prospect list are confidential. The software space is competitive. Heck, during the course of this thread Shawnify launched. :smile: If you are really curious you are welcome to give me a phone call. 1-424-272-0291

New topic - kudos to the first official item for sale in the marketplace: Difflow Diffuser, 5 Element Original (02-05) or NA2 Valance

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Avoid HIJACKER? Never! I am a fan. I appreciate all your feedback and commentary. Both the results of the study and our customer and prospect list are confidential. The software space is competitive. Heck, during the course of this thread Shawnify launched. :smile: If you are really curious you are welcome to give me a phone call. 1-424-272-0291

New topic - kudos to the first official item for sale in the marketplace: Difflow Diffuser, 5 Element Original (02-05) or NA2 Valance

So in other words, you do not have an active customer list, everyone is just a prospect.

 

[synth19]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Are fees only taken if the item is SOLD, or will there be a fee for simply listing? I see there is a messaging system embedded into the ad. Is this different then our PM box? I could see users on here simply messaging or PM'ing the sellers asking to sell the item outside of the enthusify system. Personally, if I was selling an item and approached to do this, I probably would (pending I knew the member and took my normal precautions for online commerce).

 

[HIJACKER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Are fees only taken if the item is SOLD, or will there be a fee for simply listing? I see there is a messaging system embedded into the ad. Is this different then our PM box? I could see users on here simply messaging or PM'ing the sellers asking to sell the item outside of the enthusify system. Personally, if I was selling an item and approached to do this, I probably would (pending I knew the member and took my normal precautions for online commerce).

I would do the same.

The fees are only for selling the item through the system, I asked this a bit earlier. So, ads that "don't sell" or ads where the sale was local and cash, have no fees. So, using that mentality, everything I would list on this service would be classified as "not sold" (and I would sell privately through a PM.) to avoid the atrocious fee structure and hold on funds.

 

[NSX Prime]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

So in other words, you do not have an active customer list, everyone is just a prospect.

I don't really understand the question you are asking him. What do you consider as a "customer" versus a "prospect" of this service? They just launched to limited beta testing. It's brand new and still under active development, so nobody is more than a beta test partner at this point. If you want to count the beta test sites as customers, I guess this is one because the software is up and running and linked to their system. The post you just quoted shows a live listing. But they don't charge me to join, and I'm not under any sort of contract, and have made no promises to anyone, I just installed it to beta test and see if it can work for us. So I guess the question is: what do you categorize as a customer?

From talking to Chad I know a few of the other beta sites, and some of them are larger than this site. Since then I've seen the plugin up and running on some of them, others are still working out technical issues (aka it's brand new beta software).

May I ask why you seem to be taking such an adversarial approach to the discussion?

 

[Panjo]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Are fees only taken if the item is SOLD, or will there be a fee for simply listing? I see there is a messaging system embedded into the ad. Is this different then our PM box?

Enthusify only collects fees if an item is sold on the Enthusify payment platform.

Yes, the messaging system is different than the PM box built into NSX Prime. Enthusify is platform agnostic. We work with enthusiast forums that run on a variety of platforms. Thus, our framework required a messaging system since the platforms we plug into don't all handle messaging in the same way.

 

[Dhalsim]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

wow there is some downright hostility in here.

I was just watching the Hangover II and a scene from the movie reminds me of whats going on here. It's when Allen "Fat Jesus" first meet Teddy at the airport and gets crazy jealous and upset because he thinks another man is trying to join the "Wolf Pack".

Some of you in here are "Fat Jesus" and are upset Enthusify is trying to join your Wolf Pack.

Take a deep breath, relax....... things change..... sometimes for the better sometimes not but Lud is doing his best and I think he has done a great job so far.

offer constructive criticism if you have it otherwise chill and let's see how it all works out.......

 

[shawn110975]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

saleman are all the same just like politics around election time

we can do this, we can do that, after the election.... well you know the rest

so be careful Lud

 

[RSO 34]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Hi,


Bob, maybe it was not clear, but what i understood was that the seller name and date should be written in a paper next to the part itself when the photo is taken, not digitally written into the JPG. It's hard to credible photoshop a written piece of paper into an existing photo.

EDIT: just you can compare your photo with what Hijacker used, here is the link again: http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/ace32x/brakes.jpg

Thanks,
Nuno

This took less than 2 minutes. If I wanted to spend more time you would never even suspect.......

And if you only want to sell 3 calipers......

 

[synth19]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I'm not sure what your point is, ANYTHING can be faked. I can add unicorns to that photo and make it believable. This is just an added measure many forums are doing. I'm on at least 3 other forums where this is a requirement for selling and has definitely improved things. There are other measures such as minimum post count, etc. etc. which also helps. But again, nothing is 100% fool proof, but we can try.

 

[RSO 34]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I'm not sure what your point is, ANYTHING can be faked.

That's my point.

Escrow services add protection. Photos offer virtually no protection.

 

[DRIFTER]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Enthusify only collects fees if an item is sold on the Enthusify payment platform.

Yes, the messaging system is different than the PM box built into NSX Prime. Enthusify is platform agnostic. We work with enthusiast forums that run on a variety of platforms. Thus, our framework required a messaging system since the platforms we plug into don't all handle messaging in the same way.

What's keeping people from using your site for advertising. Selling it on the side threw PayPal and using there buyer protection. People allredy gift money threw PayPal to save fees. Why couldn't they circumvent your entire system doing the same thing?

If this is implemented there will be no need for me to keep an account on prime. I won't be buying anything when I can just go to a products website and save the 10%. I can look at all the posts and search for info as a guest if I need DIY info. I think your under estimating the value of the free market place. If I deside to sell something it will be with another free market place. I would rather have prime collect money from sales then Enthusify. To much fluff with little to no value. I have made a lot of sales without one issue because I do my homework on the products I buy. I have been ripped off by a well known longtime vendor of this site. How he seems to get protection from prime because he is still allowed to sell and peddle his products. How his buyer beware hate threads get removed. How is this going to help that. You all know the vender I'm talking about. People still defend this scum after he has ripped off hundreds of people.

My point is people are going to just go around this sell ther products in a different market. Hell I can see top level vendors leaving due to this.

 

[docjohn]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

I think Lud is smart enough to know that after reading this thread,but again this really boils down to all the other folks who are'nt posting on this thread who will gladly let those fees pass through for the escrow service....this is a startup and Lud seems to have a comfort level with the developers...what we need to do is help them work the kinks out.

 

[RSO 34]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

While everyone is ponitificating and plotting about ways to avoid the fees what has been lost in the process is the fact that such escrow services are being looked at to prevent buyers from being scammed here. Everyone seems intent to find a way for the seller to beat the system and all that does is expose the buyer once again. However, if a buyer is willing to risk bypassing the protections afforded by such service then at least it happened "outside of Prime" and no one can come back here crying they were scammed when they chose to facilitate an end around in that fashion.

One final thing about photos. They did zero to protect multiple "buyers" of the same transmission which actually existed but was never shipped by a long time member here. That was just one of the recent frauds and resulted in almost $10,000 in total losses to several members.

Once again, Lud has asked that the discussion be closed on the "fees" issue since the choice will be either no marketplace here at all or an outside service such as is being tested. Either way, the "free ride" is on its last lap....

 

[Dutchy]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

2nd pic with the new note looks very fake in so many ways. Doesn't take a wonderboy to notice that at first sight.

 

[RSO 34]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

2nd pic with the new note looks very fake in so many ways. Doesn't take a wonderboy to notice that at first sight.

As I indicated, it took less than two minutes to do that and any effort at all would hide any flaws. And it is more obvious to scrutiny since I put it up there with the original. In a "vacuum" it will cause some potential victim to take the bait.

The thing is scammers don't look to fool the "wonderboys". They scam the naive and gullible. Most scammers will walk away from the those who ask the right questions or are too inquisitive and will look for the weaker ones.

You don't need to fool them all to "make a living" this way....

 

[UnhuZ]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

Hi,

While everyone is ponitificating and plotting about ways to avoid the fees what has been lost in the process is the fact that such escrow services are being looked at to prevent buyers from being scammed here. Everyone seems intent to find a way for the seller to beat the system and all that does is expose the buyer once again. However, if a buyer is willing to risk bypassing the protections afforded by such service then at least it happened "outside of Prime" and no one can come back here crying they were scammed when they chose to facilitate an end around in that fashion.

what everyone seems to be overlooking is that this system is far from being bulletproof:

- Sellers can beat the system by sending a box full of trash and then it's their word against buyers (if they used the 14 days). Sellers may keep parts and money
- Buyers are SOL if they missed the 14 days (or whatever) to complain
- Buyers can beat the system by alleging they received a box full of trash. Buyers can keep parts and money
- Both sides, buyers and sellers, can make way to go aside the system.
- etc

Clear Positives i see:

- Enthusify cashes in
- Prime cashes in
- Lud get scammer problems out if his hands


Clear negatives i see (on top of the above ones):

- Seller lose money on parts AND shipping if the prices are not marked up
- Buyer will pay more for the same part to feed the system
- False sense of protection (greater than Paypal)

The problem will still be there, why bring one more variable into the equation ?!

Bob, by this i'm not saying that Lud's points aren't valid, they are and i agree and understand with him, but this is not the way... looking from a distance, this may end looking like he is moving the responsability to a third party.... responsability that he assumes and IT'S NOT HIS. He is this sandbox king, but he is not anyone's father... we have to have responsability in what we do, and by taking that away from us, it's not helping us, it's facilitating that in the future we are less and less prepared to defend ourselves.

That is why i agree more that the current "Parts for sale" platform must have tighter restrictions than moving it completly away to under a third party's wing.

There will always be problems, sellers and buyers will still be scammed, this Enthusify system will only mask it and make the problems even less visible than they are.

I don't agree with it, just because i don't see any factual improvement, but i will still test it to see how it works.

Nuno

PS - sorry the rant

 

[Panjo]

Re: Beta testing Enthusify as a new Marketplace platform

What's keeping people from using your site for advertising. Selling it on the side through PayPal and using their buyer protection. People already gift money through PayPal to save fees. Why couldn't they circumvent your entire system doing the same thing?

Enthusify does not do anything to prevent this. It behooves Enthusify to provide enough service, convenience and security on both sides of the transaction to encourage use of the Enthusify-powered system. The current version of the Enthusify marketplace is very basic. It is the first release. There is a huge list of features that could make the software more valuable to various constituents. This dialog and early adopters help us prioritize that list. We want to build something with community input that benefits the community.

If this is implemented there will be no need for me to keep an account on prime.

You need a Prime account to post something for sale.

I would rather have prime collect money from sales than Enthusify.

This is similar to saying, 'I would rather have prime collect money from donations than PayPal.' There is labor and infrastructure involved in lots of the suggestions that have popped up in this thread. Labor and infrastructure cost money. This page is the most direct way you can contribute to NSX Prime. (http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/payments.php) Even that highly direct option of donating to the site has fees associated with it. We fully understand that the fees need to be commensurate with the level of service, security, and convenience provided.

I want to thank A.S. Motorsport who took the time to send a PM with a handful of pointed suggestions related to features.

Per Lud's request:

Please use the rest of this thread to evaluate the Enthusify platform and make suggestions as to how it can be improved to possibly solve this problem in a useful way, or present alternatives I can integrate into the website somehow.