Coilover issues

[Hugh]

So it makes me wonder if my mechanic put in the bushings on the sway bars... I can't see it in the pics I took... hmmmm what do u think?

Not sure what you're talking about. Bushings? The front links, albiet decapitated, look properly bolted onto the sways.

You should print the install diagram of the rear links and ask your mechanic if he observed the proper mounting procedure or just air-rammed the bolts on.

Also, I moved the links to the stiffest setting to get the most out of my sway bars. I have it on the same setting in the rear.

The closer in you mount the links to the sways, the stiffer you make the sways and the more you affect under/oversteer on the car. That's not necessarily "getting the most" out of the bars. Did you experiment with different settings before settling on one? On the street you're not going to notice much anyway. Do you track your car?

 

[enkrypt3d]

Not sure what you're talking about. Bushings? The front links, albiet decapitated, look properly bolted onto the sways.

You should print the install diagram of the rear links and ask your mechanic if he observed the proper mounting procedure or just air-rammed the bolts on.



The closer in you mount the links to the sways, the stiffer you make the sways and the more you affect under/oversteer on the car. That's not necessarily "getting the most" out of the bars. Did you experiment with different settings before settling on one? On the street you're not going to notice much anyway. Do you track your car?

I'm talking about the bushings that mount to the frame of the car (on the left side of the picture I posted above)

http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=947

I would think that you could see them sticking out between the mounting bracket and the sway bar itself no?

And yes when I had the sways installed, I had them on the middle hole... it felt fine, but I wanted a stiffer response so I moved the drop links to the inside hole on both the front sway and rear sway too.... Once I get these new aftermarket drop links, I think I'll keep them in the same mounting hole.

No I dont track the car (maybe one day?)... but I do like the performance on the street... navigating traffic etc haha

 

[ChopsJazz]

FWIW, I bought the same bushings with these brackets from Dali and the brackets needed "modification" to fit properly.

 

[enkrypt3d]

FWIW, I bought the same bushings with these brackets from Dali and the brackets needed "modification" to fit properly.

how much of a modification are u talking about? Can u tell if my current sways have bushings on them?? Dali sells them as a kit with the sways but I'm not sure if they were installed...

 

[Hugh]

I'm talking about the bushings that mount to the frame of the car (on the left side of the picture I posted above)

You can clearly see the red bushing between the sway bar and bracket in your photo. No worries there.

 

[KooLaid]

The angle on the links from lowering causes stress on that link. Where it broke is the weakest link. I've broken a rear one when I was tapping on the large round part of the link trying to install the lower rear shock. It's the angle. Over tightening does nothing to where yours broke. Don't think the teflon bushing is keyed. Air ramming the links on shouldn't cause the link to break there.

This is what happened to mine:
http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1839

Anyhow, I managed to weld it back together without destroying the teflon bushing inside. It's definitely difficult since it heats up fast and easy. It's tack. Cool. tack. Cool. ZIP. Cool. Zip. Cool. Just gotta keep the keep the heat down and cool it fast. I've been driving on it now for over a year and half. 12k miles or so.

As for the red urethane swap bar bushings, they should of came complete with the swaybars, bushings, brackets and swaybar(s). The dali sways also come with the collar welded in place to keep them from moving. No modification should be needed at all.

 

[Hugh]

Don't think the teflon bushing is keyed. Air ramming the links on shouldn't cause the link to break there.

Double check that.

It's been years since I swapped my sway bars but I'm pretty sure I had to insert an allen key in one or both ends of the front links to lock the shafts and get the bolts off.

I agree that air tools aren't the cause for enkrypted's links snapping. His problem was excessive stress. However, air tools are a big no no. Torque these to the right specs or they can be damaged and turned into little clunksters.

 

[KooLaid]

Yeah, you MUST use an allen to install/remove that link properly. That's unless the teflon bushing is tight enough that you don't, might get it part way installed/removed but really gotta use an allen. It's the reasons I went to Costco and bought that $20 pack of rachet wrenches. What sucks is the nut is a 17mm. The wrenches go 15mm, 19mm and completely skips the ONLY size and only reason I bought the wrench, the 17mm.

I really like the Dali links. If it another breaks for me (other than the one that already broke once), I'll try to weld it again but if I destroy the teflon, I'm going Dali.

Double check that.

It's been years since I swapped my sway bars but I'm pretty sure I had to insert an allen key in one or both ends of the front links to lock the shafts and get the bolts off.

I agree that air tools aren't the cause for enkrypted's links snapping. His problem was excessive stress. However, air tools are a big no no. Torque these to the right specs or they can be damaged and turned into little clunksters.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

The connectors are broken on both driver side front and passenger side front... what would cause this?

From the picture it is clear that you put the front anti-roll bar on the stiffest setting using your stock fixed end-links. The off-set and angle of your stock end-links were ill-suited for the geometry, and their strength was insufficient to handle the radial load on the up-stroke. It thus sheared at the same weak spot they frequently do, at the base.

And what are these pieces called that are broken? Toe links?

End-links.

Do you know of any other vendors that sell the above aftermarket parts (other than Dali) I dont think he has them in stock!

More super-secret go-fast magic. :wink:

You can get or assemble rod-ends just about anywhere.

Also, I moved the links to the stiffest setting to get the most out of my sway bars. I have it on the same setting in the rear.

I see.

 

[enkrypt3d]

From the picture it is clear that you put the front anti-roll bar on the stiffest setting using your stock end-links. The off-set and angle of your stock end-links were ill-suited for the geometry, and it could not handle the torsional load on the up-stroke. It thus sheared at the same weak spot they frequently do, at the base.

End-links.

I don't know. Super-secret go-fast magic. :wink:

You can get or assemble rod-ends just about anywhere.

I see.

I had no idea that these would break... but now I know... if only I can get a hold of Mark

 

[ChopsJazz]

how much of a modification are u talking about? Can u tell if my current sways have bushings on them?? Dali sells them as a kit with the sways but I'm not sure if they were installed...

The bushings/brackets were shipped as a unit and were simply a general 1" package. The packaging even had a picture of a muscle car on it IIRC. They were for general use. From what I recall (it's been a couple years) the holes did not align with the mounting points on the NSX and they were slightly bigger and had to be bent and ground to fit the chassis.

 

[KooLaid]

Where can I find the spherical rod ends and other needed pieces to build some links for myself?

 

[enkrypt3d]

The bushings/brackets were shipped as a unit and were simply a general 1" package. The packaging even had a picture of a muscle car on it IIRC. They were for general use. From what I recall (it's been a couple years) the holes did not align with the mounting points on the NSX and they were slightly bigger and had to be bent and ground to fit the chassis.

Ah I see... I'm going to have to do some poking around to see if my sway bar bushings are the right size... or re-lube them! It really bugs me that my suspension is so dirty.... :redface::frown:

 

[enkrypt3d]

Where can I find the spherical rod ends and other needed pieces to build some links for myself?

I was thinking maybe we could fabricate something.... where is titaniumdave when we need him! lol

I wonder if lowes or home depot would have the parts to make these pieces....?

 

[KooLaid]

I was thinking maybe we could fabricate something.... where is titaniumdave when we need him! lol

I wonder if lowes or home depot would have the parts to make these pieces....?

Dont think we really need Dave to fab these. They're pretty simple. But if the price is right, I might be game. I've found the spherical rod ends on line for like $4-$10 or so each. Just can't find the rest. Dali's deal for one front, one rear isn't that bad price wise. I just don't NEED one at this moment.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Dont think we really need Dave to fab these. They're pretty simple. But if the price is right, I might be game. I've found the spherical rod ends on line for like $4-$10 or so each. Just can't find the rest. Dali's deal for one front, one rear isn't that bad price wise. I just don't NEED one at this moment.

yea I think we could fab some for much cheaper than $125... :tongue:

 

[KooLaid]

yea I think we could fab some for much cheaper than $125... :tongue:

But compared to ~$100 for a single OEM, it's not too shabby cause you get two, one for each end lol.

 

[stuntman]

You can find spherical endlinks at many hardware stores. Cheap ardware store ones have been known to fail, but hey, they are cheap.

You can find durable ones as well but their's a good chance the tolerances won't last leaving you with annoying clunky endlinks. Proper racing endlinks are expensive for a reason.


0.02


We will be looking into producing adjustable endlinks for a good price with modified control arm bracket which won't bind due to the perpendicular mounting angles of the stock design.

 

[enkrypt3d]

You can find spherical endlinks at many hardware stores. Cheap ardware store ones have been known to fail, but hey, they are cheap.

You can find durable ones as well but their's a good chance the tolerances won't last leaving you with annoying clunky endlinks. Proper racing endlinks are expensive for a reason.


0.02


We will be looking into producing adjustable endlinks for a good price with modified control arm bracket which won't bind due to the perpendicular mounting angles of the stock design.

Nice man let me know as soon as you have a set for sale (front & rear)

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

I wonder if lowes or home depot would have the parts to make these pieces....?

You are not going to find what you need in the hardware isle at the home depot. Don't bother wasting your gas.

I've found the spherical rod ends on line for like $4-$10 or so each.

Umm. Not sure what you are looking at but that's a little too low.

Where can I find the spherical rod ends and other needed pieces to build some links for myself?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=AURORA
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/QA1_Rod_Ends_And_Shocks

Just can't find the rest. Dali's deal for one front, one rear isn't that bad price wise. I just don't NEED one at this moment.

You really should do both sides anyway. AFAIK you probably need the adjustment more for length anyways, not because you need to set the pre-load.

Given your applications of street or street/track, and the fact that you probably won't be maintaining them regularly, for a nice pair of heim joint adjustable end-links I would suggest you consider:

- A PFTE lining will make them more resistant to wear.
- Consider a dust boot to keep dirt and grit out.
- Get the turnbuckle threaded with one left-hand end so that the length can be adjusted without removing the link from the car.
- Consider a high-misalignment bearing and appropriate offset if you intend to use the stiffest setting. You do not want them to get bound up. For your length and adjustment range you need consider the full range of motion at each position. If you don't do this, you will probably just have the same problem again.

I was thinking maybe we could fabricate something.... where is titaniumdave when we need him! lol

yea I think we could fab some for much cheaper than $125... :tongue:

I would suggest you just pay Dave if he is willing to do this. I am sure he can fab you what you need.

 

[titaniumdave]

Hi there...

These have been on my list for over a year, at least for the front sway.

Who wants to be a guinea pig? I will sell one set at cost to who ever is the first to PM me...

Retail will be $70 for each link, made with Aurora standard duty rod ends.

includes:
one male rod end
one female rod end
assembled with a jam nut
2 sets of step down bushings
2 sets of grade 5 or better locking fasteners

Let's get one set out there, make sure there are no issues and then I will run a batch of them.

Dave

 

[Hugh]

You really should do both sides anyway.

According to Mark, the reason only one is necessary for each bar is that they are easily disconnected and the purpose of this is to remove load on the sway bar for correct corner balancing.

The adjustable length however is enough reason for me to fit two per end of the car.

 

[Hugh]

Where can I find the spherical rod ends and other needed pieces to build some links for myself?

Right here.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

According to Mark, the reason only one is necessary for each bar is that they are easily disconnected and the purpose of this is to remove load on the sway bar for correct corner balancing.

How hard is it to disconnect the stock ones? It takes two minutes.

Either way, for daily street driving, where the limits of traction are never reached while cornering; you would never notice preload on your anti-roll bar, nor will you require adjustable end-links for weight jacking to garner better weight distribution.

The adjustable length however is enough reason for me to fit two per end of the car.

Ok. Realize that the OEM fixed self-lubricating high articulation ball joint, is actually the preferential design for daily driving in a road car. Being sealed they keep out contaminates and are quiet.

 

[Hugh]

How hard is it to disconnect the stock ones? It takes two minutes.

Excellent point.

Either way, for daily street driving, where the limits of traction are never reached while cornering;

You've obviously never had the pleasure of taking on/off ramps or driving on The Dragon with me. :biggrin:

Ok. Realize that the OEM fixed self-lubricating high articulation ball joint, is actually the preferential design for daily driving in a road car. Being sealed they keep out contaminates and are quiet.

Another very good point but the stock ones seem to be prone to breakage (especially from over zealous coilover installers). As far as noise, I'm not quite sure anything is going to get inside of a Heim joint that's severe enough to make noise. And the Dali units appear a lot more robust than the OEM pieces.

John, scoll up to post 14 and look at this guy's front links. They are snapped like that on both sides. I'm thinking it must be impact related. What do you think? Under normal use and proper R&R these parts should last the life of the car.