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NSX slammed in Car&Driver, R8 a favorite
- Thread starter johnny010
- Start date
Wouldn't they be even:smile:
As for the rest of your argument stock vs stock
Fine then lets compare a corvette to an NSX stock for stock, the C6 is pretty damn close in performance and costs half as much. All I am saying is that people don't purchase a car because of its sticker price alone...nor its 1/4 mile or 0-60 times as you implied that since its (the R8) only a hair faster than the nsx its not worth the additional money over an NSX. Using that train of thought no one would of purchased an NSX. People buy cars for different reasons, performance, exclusivity, luxury etc. Your argument against the R8 was solely based on magazine bench racing, again another place the NSX often loses out, but ask the people who own and drive them, they know exactly why they own an NSX over more expensive cars and even cheapers ones, regardless of what they run in the 1/4 as published in a magazine.
Audi's R8 has room for the V-10 and if you read CAR Magazine March issue...Audi seems to be already working on the V-10 for the R8.
Unlike Acura.... Audi will update the R8 in the 3rd year to keep sales high...after the first wave of orders is fillled.
Since Audi and Lambo are both owned by the same parent company... it seems that Audi didn't want to launch with a V-10 and step on the Gallardo's toes right-off-the-bat.
PS- CAR's March 2007 issue ask- "Has Honda has Lost it?" page-18 ASC
Very true. I'm not sure if Honda is capable of updating anything anymore...
Also, I don't think a 500hp V-10 would have stepped on the Gallardo's toes. Lambo has the brand power and I don't think the two cars would really compete against each other. 2 very different vehicles/buyer pools--but, I do see your point. If Audi was concerned about that then just de-tune the R8 V-10 to 475hp and tune the Gallardo to 525hp.
You got me on the typo:biggrin: Corvette isn't a mid engine exotic and so far that's what we're talking about and comparing.
Face it, the Audi R8 is a great car. Looks, HP and all the littel add-ons the NSX is missing. On the other hand, it was designed in 07!
Lets see if the Audi R8 will last the years and years the NSX has.
Although I love the car, it's not the NSX. The rear engine cover design alone doesn't flip my switch.
All the comparisons... Pound for Pound. I'll keep stay in the NSX camp.
It will be interesting if you see an 'R-Type' equv. come out of Audi or if in later years we'll see drift videos come out of Japan...
Great car, but not an NSX
Lets see if the Audi R8 will last the years and years the NSX has.
Although I love the car, it's not the NSX. The rear engine cover design alone doesn't flip my switch.
All the comparisons... Pound for Pound. I'll keep stay in the NSX camp.
It will be interesting if you see an 'R-Type' equv. come out of Audi or if in later years we'll see drift videos come out of Japan...
Great car, but not an NSX
Seems heavy to me for alum - $130k car, but I guess it is a 4x4.
Does it look like a 1998 TT coupe or is it just me?
What a break through. Speaking of new cars, seen
the new Dodge " Miata" probably an abortion on wheels as well.
I guess I am just old & new cars don't interest me anymore.
The prices & styiling just make me laugh.:tongue:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=TT+COUPE&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
Does it look like a 1998 TT coupe or is it just me?
What a break through. Speaking of new cars, seen
the new Dodge " Miata" probably an abortion on wheels as well.
I guess I am just old & new cars don't interest me anymore.
The prices & styiling just make me laugh.:tongue:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=TT+COUPE&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
S2000 has the room for a V6, that's what most of the car magazines said. Honda didn't bother to put a V6 into that car to boost sales! But according to you, if R8 sales slow down after 3rd year, that is, if it is good enough to begin with - Audi will pumping more money into that car and make the price go even higher – so they can salvage the sales - after the initial sales slow down?
Sorry, a Diet Gallardo will not work because a used Gallardo is much more attractive and probably will be cheaper than this phantom V10 R8.
So if Audi knows about not to compete with them self, what makes you think they will do that at a later time? So they can compete with the very same thing they want to avoid? BTW, Unlike Ferrari F430, which demands up to $100k over MSRP, Lambo was discounting the Gallardo by $15k not too long ago so they can sell those cars.
Has Honda lost it? No way, they’re just focusing on some thing else. You cannot say, “Honda lost it” just because they don’t make a car you want. If they lost it, they wouldn’t be building new plants everywhere in the world, have record profit, and keep the quality high.
GM, Ford, Chrysler has lost it? I would have agreed with that statement!!!
At the end of the day it's still a VOLKSWAGEN. Expect electrical problems, faulty workmanship, and cheap materials inside and out.....No disrespect to the VW crew, but I speak from personal experiences....
BTW...the NSX is STILL sexier. Classic lines that will never be outdated IMO.
BTW...the NSX is STILL sexier. Classic lines that will never be outdated IMO.
Anyone have an R8 reserved? Planning on it?
True, from a financial standpoint Honda is doing fine. I don't think anyone is trying to refute Honda's overall success. They still know how to make money--that's not what we're discussing. Certainly the US manufacturers have completely lost their way in every sense.
You make my point. Honda is definitely concentrating on other things--Civics and Accords, motorcycles and Asimos. It's not just me--everyone on Prime is unhappy with Honda's direction in terms of their performance cars. And other than their Civics and Accords, which are basically cookie-cutter cars that require very little R & D and updating to stay competitive they seem to be far from the front in automobile innovation in the last 13 years.
Honda still puts out a quality product that I will buy but to say "whatever Honda does is right" is nonsense. Just because they are profitable doesn't mean they always do the right thing. Marketing to please the masses is perfectly fine and I hope Honda prospers doing that.
If Honda isn't going to make secular sports cars anymore, fine. Just say so and that's that. But I take offense when Honda tries to pee on our leg and tell us it's raining with the ASCC being the "NSX successor"--this after Honda's failure to update and market the NSX and S2000 and develop a no-brainer V-8. At least say that something like the ASCC is a new direction and a totally different approach and let it stand on it's own. Directly associating it with the NSX was just wrong. Now they've shelved it and are probably 5 years away from putting anything like the ASCC or HSC on the road. These facts directly contradict statements made by Fukui. He absolutley misled people about the status of the NSX successor. Why? I don't get that. Just tell it like it is.
Not to mention that after 16 years the Acura brand finds itself inferior to Lexus and Audi. Honda had all the opportunity in the world to remedy that and didn't.
Honda could have done many, many things differently with the NSX and the S2000 over the years and have chosen not to, falling back on this loony notion of "not messing with perfection"
When you only sell 250 NSXs per year something's not right and you can't blame the car.Anyway, Honda is overall a great company and they can do what they want and clearly they make a lot of money. Fine. It's just frustrating when cars like the R8 come out and are the closest thing to an HSC available and are so inferior to what we know Honda can produce.
Don't know about you guys, but for around $130k I would take the Ford Gt over the R8 (more recent model compared)
I would venture to say the R8 is going to be infinitely more practical/driveable/reliable over it's lifespan than the Ford GT.
I agree that as far as "exotic" and performance goes the Ford GT is the better choice. I just see the Ford GT as a garage-queen collectable rather than a daily driver. I think the R8 will much more practical than the GT.
If I wanted an exclusive weekend toy and a collectable car I definitely would consider the Ford GT over the R8 for $130K.
To me the biggest enemy for the R8 is the 997 TT. The R8 doesn't look that much better than the 911 and at $130K it will be slightly cheaper, much faster and Porsche has the brand advantage.
Quite honestly, although I hate Porsche and am totally uninspired by the look of the 911 the R8 doesn't inspire me that much more. I think I would give the nod to the 997 TT. The performance is on a different level and I think it's the better value, all things considered. I just don't think I could cut a $130k check for the R8 when the 997 TT exists. JMHO.
Seems heavy to me for alum - $130k car, but I guess it is a 4x4.
Does it look like a 1998 TT coupe or is it just me?
What a break through. Speaking of new cars, seen
the new Dodge " Miata" probably an abortion on wheels as well.
I guess I am just old & new cars don't interest me anymore.
The prices & styiling just make me laugh.:tongue:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=TT+COUPE&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
Amen! I thought it was just me also! It looks like a TT that has been squashed and stretched. Okay guys. Fast forward to 2010. Will you really think this thing looks that great???
I would certainly gawk and be one of those people going HOLY CRAP! That is today however. Likely still for 2-3 years from now also. In 16 years though will I be saying the same thing????.......... Not likely at all. The NSX has an exotic look to it that I personally don't see in the A8. The pic on this thread makes the Audi look like a glorified 350Z with it's rear quarter panel lines. Other photos of course quickly denounce this comparisson. If the Audi R8 gets even a tenth of the wow factor in 15+ years like the NSX does I would be surprised. There will be MANY cars that will come from the major manurfacturers over the next 15 years that will blow the Audi out of the water. Our NSX too for that matter....:smile:
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I wonder how much damage a 5 MPH impact does to the front or rear.
As a track guy I disagree also I did say coupe. Factor in that I've never seen a stock NSX at the track and you change the variables. The R8 weighs as much as my M3 ( with a back seat and good size trunk
With all that said if the R8 didn't outperform the NSX on the street I'd have to say there's a problem. The NSX should be outperformed by newer cars especially ones costing $30-40k more. I'm not trying to slam the R8! I've seen it up close and it's just not attractive to me ,but you like big Audi TT's more power to you. I've had an Audi quattro and it was a fun ,but heavy for its size car. As it got older all sorts of stuff started to go wrong and maintenance was high ( the thing didn't even take regular brake fluid. I had to buy hydralic fluid from the dealer
That's what the NSX changed about the exotic car world and that's what makes it a great car to have. Performance wise it was always competitive and just the fact the NSX is still mentioned when cars like the R8 come and go shows that it still is.
May the R8 make it's owners very happy:smile:
Your original quote was that the R8 would only be a fender length ahead of an NA2 NSX. My reply was simply that it would be more than a fender length. Apparently, Honda thinks all wheel drive is better since the ASC will have it too. Now, the complexity you complain about will be present on Hondas as well. The R8 will easily outperform the NSX on the track. There is no doubt. I love the NSX, but if C&D takes you up on your offer, it will look VERY dated compared to the competition. What amazing changes were made from the 99 Zanardi they tested to the 2004-05 models you want them to compare? I realize the cosmetic changes, but performance should be nearly identical. Why would they test the car again? It was old news!!!
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It will probably come down to driving both of them back to back, IMHO the MR platform will probably feel more natural to someone who is used to a MR car like the NSX.
I read the same article and was IMPRESSED that the NSX is still mentioned!!!
Ok, I can accept that, I do not know the stats, but I would bet less than 10% of the owner of $130K car use them as daily driver, I know a few NSX owners here that are garage queens, so I would think the same will happen to R8.
If that's case, I would take the F GT over both 997 TT and R8 just for head turning factor along.:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Indeed, I think the people shopping in that segment would go 997 TT if they prefer performance, and AM V8 if they prefer style. But there might be enough people who like some of both, and could find the R8 attractive because of its blend...
I think the R8 is a fantastic car. At $120k though, it starts to price itself into some very appealling competitors' teritory. I would not be surprised to see many NSX owners driving a R8 down the road.
Even though the R8 has some performance advantages over a 911S, it won't dent Porsche sales. Their owners are lifers. I think the R8 will go down in history as undersold, underappreciated, and in 10 years underpowered.:wink:
Even though the R8 has some performance advantages over a 911S, it won't dent Porsche sales. Their owners are lifers. I think the R8 will go down in history as undersold, underappreciated, and in 10 years underpowered.:wink:
No, and no one is suggesting that Porsche sales will go down one iota from the intro of the R8. The R8 needs to find a way to sell in spite of the 997 TT.
That 997 TT is such a value at $125K it's ridiculous. And they have the brand. It's a monster and that's why a rival car company needs to avoid that price range like the plague. Once you start venturing into $120K+ range the allure of the 997 TT kills your chances.
Big mistake to price the R8 above $120K with only 420hp. Or drop the 500hp V-10 in and price it at $145K. But $130K is suicide against the 911.
It will definitely be undersold and underpowered. I'm sure it will be a great car and possibly underappreciated but for 130K it doesn't represent a good value in my eyes.
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