OMG - Dealer Wrecked My '04

[White92]

You will soon find out how much your loyalty/business was worth to this Price Acura.

I got that same statement in my fortune cookie last night!

 

[NSXVURGIN]

OH MY GOD!!! I AM SO SORRY....

1ST Lawyer....

2ND I run a "shop" we build Police Vehicles.

WE HAVE INSURANCE for anything, we are liable because vehicles
are in our care custody and control.

We once were broken into, and somone damaged a bunch of Patrol cars, long story short....we had to fix everything to original. It wasn't pretty on our insurance claim, but CARE CUSTODY AND CONTROL!!!!!

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I do not know if that's going to work or not... but just ideas of what could make the dealership's backhair stand straight up...

As you have the brand new NSX, the top of the line acura that it didn't sell much in a year, you should be able to talk someone in Honda/Acura Coporate office, and most likely, this is an aftersales issue, they will ignore you or tell you that it's between you and your dealer. However, make sure they take notes of this dealership's "service".

Media exposure, I forgot where you live, but local newstation or newspaper is hungry for such NEWS...

See if you have anyone forward this email to various Acura forums. Especially the locals, and warned them for their careless service and their doubtful ethics.

Of course, you can threaten you were going to do this, or you may actually doing that to create more damage.

I agree with most, you are a better man than me. It's a given that EVERYONE should be nice to you and bending backwards when you trying to buy a brand new nsx. You deserve nothing less than a red carpet service!!

 

[matteni]

Wow - don't get out to prime much but this was the most depressing thing I have seen on here in a LONG time. I got a simple inspection and my dealer lost a Forgeline cap and I was pissed (and they replaced it)! Can't imagine your feelings right now.

Your best move - is to not have any contact at all with them until you talk to your lawyer. If you say stuff like "do this or I will turn you in to the press" or other threats can actually be considered "blackmail/extortion" in some areas and get you in a lot of trouble. You need to be protected from what you might say or do in a situation like this. Let the lawyer do all the talking.

Be ready for a somewhat frustrating, expensive, and lengthy process. Our system was designed for justice and not for cost savings or speed.

Good luck - please keep us posted.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

So essentially per your personal account- you had an Acura service employee pick-up your SC NSX for scheduled service, he was driving either aggressively or too fast for conditions, he lost control and crashed, then left the scene of an accident without reporting it, pulled into the service bay to clean the vehicle up as best he could, inevitably contacted you- and now the dealership is refusing to take fiscal responsibility for their employee's actions and everyone is trying to push the incident off their liability and back on to your personal auto insurance policy?

Right.. Like that's going to fly.

My 2 cents- first, before all else, especially given the circumstances, file a police report with the DSP traffic division. The fact is you have no idea what happened. For all you know the nice service guy could have been impaired or driving aggressively having hard shifted in the wet at redline out of 2nd gear at 72mph in a 35mph. Maybe there were witnesses? You don't know.

The bottom line is no matter what happened it would be rather useful to have as much on your side as possible- definitely something more tangible in your possession than (1) moderately damaged NSX and verbal accounts from a few guys at a dealership that have obviously a keen interest in extricating themselves from further liability. I'd start there.

Next, get all the paperwork including copies of your own policy, read-up on exclusions, contact both a civil attorney and your insurance agent and pull them in immediately as well. Either of which has more resources and knowledge of the laws in DE and can investigate / best advise you on coverage and options.

Often times in incidents like this if they have strong legal footing your insurer may pay out to the insured immediately and can then pursue recouping damages later from the at-fault parties insurer.

 

[RyanITV]

John : the guy that picked the car up dropped it off fine; it was the tech working on the car that wrecked it. The tech was ticketed by the police for something because of the accident - not sure what.

I just got back from the dealership - phones suck for this sort of thing. I got four people into a meeting (including the GM and the service manager) and laid it all otu for them.

My insurance company says that if they cover the damage, they'll sue. Period. Now, when you drop your car off, they have you sign a form saying your insurance will take care of any damages. But.... I didn't drop it off; they picked up - I signed no release from liability.

I calmly explained that they had the opportunity here to do the right thing and save their reputation and some expensive legal fees. My call to my insurance company to put the claim in is a "point of no return" - I stated that as soon as that call was made, the ball would be rolling and legal action was unavoidable, because that's what insurance companies did in cases like this.

I think that it worked. They requested that I allow them to take it to their body shop to put it on a frame machine to see what (if any) damage had been done to the frame and do a preliminary estimate. Based on that figure, they'd let me know within the next day or so what they were going to do.

I take it as a positive sign that they told my salesperson to do a locator on a 2005 Rio Yellow Pearl/Onyx car as I was leaving. I think the in-person visit and explaining that I wasn't going to back down may have shifted things around a bit up there. We'll see in a few days.

Ryan

 

[CerberusM5]

This really is a shame to see your car damaged by absolute idiots. As someone else posted, the dealer will try to outlast you and hope you give in and take their offer. The first thing you need to ask yourself; is if a legal battle worth the trouble? Do you have the time? As we all know, time is money.

This is what I envision happening. After they fix your car they will probably offer you $65k max as a trade in value towards a new car. I would push them to give you $70k (not likely though), which is more than you could get on an 04' that has never been damaged on trade. After you settle on the trade in value, I would demand they sell you the 05 at dealer cost (approx $79k?). Also, they need to eat the labor cost to exchange your aftermarket parts. Basically, you will lose approximately $14k+ in this situation, but you will have a brand new 2005 versus an 04' w/ miles that has already depreciated for one model year. Is having a brand new 2005 worth $14k?

Of course your alternative is keep the repaired car. It appears all the damage is cosmetic, so it should look perfect if you request an excellent bodyshop perform the repair.

I would consult with an attorney, but keep in mind their fees are not recoverable and if you do not have the staying power, this will be monies lost (attorneys are the only winners in litigation). It would be a shame for you to spend $5k in legal fees and reach the same outcome.

I hope the dealer does the right thing and meets your request, since this is solely their fault.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

John : the guy that picked the car up dropped it off fine; it was the tech working on the car that wrecked it. The tech was ticketed by the police for something because of the accident - not sure what.

Ahh. I couldn't get the specifics on cirsumstances from your initial post so I am glad you cleared that up. Same idea thou, but it's great to hear that an at-fault moving violation was probably issued. You should be able to request a copy of the field report in short time if needed. That is always good to have.

I just got back from the dealership - phones suck for this sort of thing. I got four people into a meeting (including the GM and the service manager) and laid it all otu for them.

My insurance company says that if they cover the damage, they'll sue. Period. Now, when you drop your car off, they have you sign a form saying your insurance will take care of any damages. But.... I didn't drop it off; they picked up - I signed no release from liability.

I calmly explained that they had the opportunity here to do the right thing and save their reputation and some expensive legal fees. My call to my insurance company to put the claim in is a "point of no return" - I stated that as soon as that call was made, the ball would be rolling and legal action was unavoidable, because that's what insurance companies did in cases like this.

Good. I suspected that's what they would say as they are probably on solid footing there.

I think that it worked. They requested that I allow them to take it to their body shop to put it on a frame machine to see what (if any) damage had been done to the frame and do a preliminary estimate. Based on that figure, they'd let me know within the next day or so what they were going to do.

I take it as a positive sign that they told my salesperson to do a locator on a 2005 Rio Yellow Pearl/Onyx car as I was leaving. I think the in-person visit and explaining that I wasn't going to back down may have shifted things around a bit up there. We'll see in a few days.

I would be absolutely amazed if they sourced another 05 for you, transfered the SC, etc... or gave you a good trade-in after fix but I hope that it works out just that way. Situations like this can lead to weird human behaviors, but if they truely make you whole for your loss there is little more you can ask.

 

[White92]

I think you are handling this very calmly and professional. Most people would fly off the handle and not even be reasonable with their demands. It seems you are just wanting them to make it right, nothing more and nothing less. Good job!

The only thing I might do different in your above post, (if it were me, and it's not, so just ignore me) is request to take it to a shop of your choosing. The shop that they choose is probably one they work with alot and will give them an answer that benefits the dealership.

 

[White92]

Has Bridgewater Acura chimed in on this? I'm curious to see what he would say or do in this situation.

 

[MJK]

I take it as a positive sign that they told my salesperson to do a locator on a 2005 Rio Yellow Pearl/Onyx car as I was leaving... We'll see in a few days.

In case you need it:

 

[CerberusM5]

I think that it worked. They requested that I allow them to take it to their body shop to put it on a frame machine to see what (if any) damage had been done to the frame and do a preliminary estimate. Based on that figure, they'd let me know within the next day or so what they were going to do.

I take it as a positive sign that they told my salesperson to do a locator on a 2005 Rio Yellow Pearl/Onyx car as I was leaving. I think the in-person visit and explaining that I wasn't going to back down may have shifted things around a bit up there. We'll see in a few days.

Ryan

That's good news!

 

[RyanITV]

I would be absolutely amazed if they sourced another 05 for you, transfered the SC, etc... or gave you a good trade-in after fix but I hope that it works out just that way. Situations like this can lead to weird human behaviors, but if they truely make you whole for your loss there is little more you can ask.

The key thing is that I'm asking for an entirely new deal on an '05; complete with another year of payments. They'd need to eat around 12-14 hours of labor to pull the CTSC from the '04 car (and put the factory parts back on, which we've got in storage) and put them on the '05. Anything else I've done (the exhaust, the hood, the spoiler), I'll pay out of pocket to have them put back on or do it myself.

The body shop it's going to for an estimate is their own (or at least the same family of dealerships). I'd assume that helps too...

I stressed when I was there that the negative backlash from this could be bad if handled incorrectly, let alone I'll never buy another car there nor recommend them to anyone.

Ryan

 

[ak]

The key thing is that I'm asking for an entirely new deal on an '05; complete with another year of payments.

I think your offer is very much in the favor of the dealer and they should take it if they are in the right mind. They can always fix the blue one and sell it and still not lose since they have a body shop in house. Best of luck!

-ak

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

The key thing is that I'm asking for an entirely new deal on an '05; complete with another year of payments. They'd need to eat around 12-14 hours of labor to pull the CTSC from the '04 car (and put the factory parts back on, which we've got in storage) and put them on the '05. Anything else I've done (the exhaust, the hood, the spoiler), I'll pay out of pocket to have them put back on or do it myself.

Sounds like a good opportunity to have the dealership mitigate their loss slightly. I know those +1 model year upgrades can be pricey. How much additional were you expecting to pay for the 05' all told? Would it be ordered new or sourced per spec from another Acura dealer?

The body shop it's going to for an estimate is their own (or at least the same family of dealerships). I'd assume that helps too...

If your going to pursue the swap, then I suppose that would make sense.

I stressed when I was there that the negative backlash from this could be bad if handled incorrectly, let alone I'll never buy another car there nor recommend them to anyone.

Now why is that? Don't think they will divulge the entire vehicle history to the next prospective NSX customer that walks into their showroom (e.g. "This is a nice low mile 04 that was put into a ditch by our lead NSX service technician and repaired as cheaply as possible by our body shop")?

Yeah, I'll remember to keep an eye out on MMR. :biggrin:

 

[gobble]

By taking it to their body shop, are they implying that they will make good if the damage isn't that bad but will try and put the burden on you if it is more expensive?

 

[whealy]

I take it as a positive sign that they told my salesperson to do a locator on a 2005 Rio Yellow Pearl/Onyx car as I was leaving. I think the in-person visit and explaining that I wasn't going to back down may have shifted things around a bit up there. We'll see in a few days.

Ryan

Current Acura inventory listings show two 04 Rio Yellow Pearl's in the country.

An 04 at Acura of Orange Park in Jackonsville, FL (talk to Pierce about it, he's the sales manager there and a great guy.

An 05 at Mac Churchill Acura in Fort Worth TX. I beleive this is currently or recently on ebay.

Hope everything works out!

 

[steveny]

I think that it worked. They requested that I allow them to take it to their body shop to put it on a frame machine to see what (if any) damage had been done to the frame and do a preliminary estimate. Based on that figure, they'd let me know within the next day or so what they were going to do.

Bad move. Take the car some place else to have the frame checked. The dealer who crashed your car has already shown they are less than moral IMO.

 

[RyanITV]

Sounds like a good opportunity to have the dealership mitigate their loss slightly. I know those +1 model year upgrades can be pricey. How much additional were you expecting to pay for the 05' all told? Would it be ordered new or sourced per spec from another Acura dealer?

Sourced from another dealer; just in the right color combo (yellow/black). We originally thought about the same color, but it's like buying an identical-looking dog/cat right after one gets run over.

Now why is that?

I think sticking me (or my insurance company) with the repair bill is just wrong, period. Combo that with no consideration towards getting a perfect car again and that's one sure way to lose a regular customer.

Ryan

 

[steveny]

Now why is that? Don't think they will divulge the entire vehicle history to the next prospective NSX customer that walks into their showroom (e.g. "This is a nice low mile 04 that was put into a ditch by our lead NSX service technician and repaired as cheaply as possible by our body shop")?

Yeah, I'll remember to keep an eye out on MMR. :biggrin:

Good idea to add the pics and vin to the crash and burn section of prime.

 

[RyanITV]

Good idea to add the pics and vin to the crash and burn section of prime.

Will do so with a rundown of the damage as soon as the estimate comes back.

Ryan

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Sourced from another dealer; just in the right color combo (yellow/black). We originally thought about the same color, but it's like buying an identical-looking dog/cat right after one gets run over.

Not a fan of Re-Pet eh? :wink:

I think sticking me (or my insurance company) with the repair bill is just wrong, period.

Ryan, of course it is, I agree with that statement as in doing so they would not be taking responsibility for their own actions.

However, the reactions/behaviors on their behalf although likely regarded as improper are also very predictable given the circumstances... (would you have expected differently?) and from everything divulged so far it seems increasingly unlikely at this time that after it's all said and done that the final word here will be what you had envisioned as worst-case: re-assuming of your car as-is, your insurer paying for the incident out of pocket and you eating downtime, history/resale value, the deductibe, and an oil change. If they truely believed that they probably would have pushed your car outside by now and told you to pick it up.

It sounds to me like they the dealer is assessing repair expenses, looking at all resolutions, and going from there before making a CRM decision and presenting you with available options. As many have mentioned you'll soon find out just how valued of a customer you are. The devil is always in the details. Personally, I'd wait awhile longer until after everyone else weighs in before presenting or electing an option but that's just me. These things usually evolve over the course of a week or two.

Combo that with no consideration towards getting a perfect car again and that's one sure way to lose a regular customer.

I suspected this might play into it. Unfortunately, similar to the engine oil change thread a few weeks back and the 04 NSX that got wrecked outside of the dealer parking lot thread- it seems to be universally accepted in business to right such situations using "Like kind and quality" standards. Thus, so long as the vehicle is repaired using what is commonly regarded as appropriate repair methodology at a body shop, they or their insurer can call it good.

Of course, time has taught me the reality- that for the vast majority of later model NSX enthusiasts, a simple R&R at the body shop is not regarded as being acceptable or being made 'whole' despite attention to detail. Impossible to say without further inspection- but the damage in the pics is likely mostly cosmetic along with a core support and perhaps a tweek. Of course, it will never likely be repaired to your 100% satisfaction (perfect) as it it not an ideal situation.

I would look at it this way- If your opposed to driving a properly fixed NSX as a resolution to this situation, then perhaps an upgrade to the 05 will make a lot more sense regardless of the higher personal cost (dealer trade-in, personal fix & sell, etc...)

 

[4AU4LIFE]

An 04 at Acura of Orange Park in Jackonsville, FL (talk to Pierce about it, he's the sales manager there and a great guy.

I see that car everytime I go in the dealership, which is quite often. If you like I can look at it and get exact mileage for you.
I also agree with the comment about Pierce. He is a good person to deal with. He helped out with the delivery of my 04 TL and showed me a few things he had done to his.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Well, the poop's getting ready to hit the fan. The GM just called and said my insurance company would have to pay for the damages, and that once the car was fixed, they'd see about giving me a fair price in trade.

Calls to my insurance agent and attorney have been placed, I've given the dealership strict instructions not to move the car till I arrive. Hell hath no fury like a pissed off NSX owner...

Ryan

See.....car dealers are snakes by nature. In a case like this they would rather sever a long standing relationship with a good customer than do the right thing. You are a better man than I am for staying calm this long. I would have had an attorney in there ASAP and probably be beating the technician with what was left of my quarter panel.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Unfortunately, Insurance companies dont care about depreciation,Its really a shame.I guess you could try to sue for accelerated depreciation. Good Luck.

With exotics they do. I have talked to individuals who have been compensated for diminished value on high end cars.