True.
GR has talent, but he has a long ways to go to get to a world champion level. Heck, look at LeClerc, great raw talent, but may end up at the Ferrari shoot show at the wrong time.
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The Official 2021 F1 thread....
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True.
GR has talent, but he has a long ways to go to get to a world champion level. Heck, look at LeClerc, great raw talent, but may end up at the Ferrari shoot show at the wrong time.
I think both Charles and Pierre Gasly are the true super stars of F1 future...Yeah...the British Press will play up GR and LN, but they don't have a chance against these two in the same machinery cars.
I don't like Max period! and Lewis is the Master!!!
Bram
I don't like Max period! and Lewis is the Master!!!
Bram
The lack of podium was Merc's team screwup- he would have had at least 3rd. Also, I think it says a lot that he was just a few hundredths off of Lewis's time in a car that was not designed or set up for him. But yeah, he's young and has a lot to learn. I have a rant elsewhere in this forum about these kids and the lack of driving skill in the series compared to the earlier years of F1, especially the turbo years. To even be able to drive those cars around the circuit without killing yourself required deep driving experience, supernatural car control and balls of solid iron. It was a sport for men. I think the only two right now who could survive in those cars are Kimi and Alonso. All these other kids would end up in very sad circumstances. No computers, no auto-shifters, no team of 100 race engineers monitoring their screens to carefully guide you around the track...just 1,200 hp, big fat tires and your wits.
Max is a brat yes, but he can drive.
I Totally agreed with you the 80"s Turbo era was the time where the real drivers shined compared to today's PlayStation generation. I know these are the best drives in the World.....but I often wonder if they can drive a Turbo era F1 car to the limit. I know Lewis can, as he drove MP4/4 around Silverstone a few years ago.
Russel have a lot to learn...However, I can see him replacing Bottas for 22.
Bram
Russel have a lot to learn...However, I can see him replacing Bottas for 22.
Bram
It is true Lewis drove the MP4/4 around Silverstone, but he didn't race the car, especially against Prost. Lewis, like Brady, is in their area and the sport has become more technical. Remember Lewis only won 1 WS at McLaren in the V8 area and only by 1 point (he lost the year before by a point when McLaren failed to bring him in sooner for fresh tires). His 1st year with Merc in 2013 was so so, but started his climb when Mercedes nailed the hybrid car. If he stayed at McLaren one has to wonder if he would still be driving. Brady, on the other hand, left the Pat's because he was only offered a 1 year deal, went to Tampa and won his 7 ring. Since I'm comparing Lewis to another sport, I will add Dorian Yates won 6 straight Mr. Olympia titles while training in an basement gym, Temple Gym, in Birmingham, UK with only a single training partner (https://youtu.be/vZnLRqD4M-I). [h=3]Mr. Olympia[/h]
The Constant of Change will always make the discussion hard. Can you imagine JM Fangio or Alberto Ascari driving a modern car? Or LH / M Shumacher driving a 1955 Alfa Romeo? Could a modern driver handle drum brakes and shifting? Could a 50s driver learn to use his hands for the clutch? It is all relative.
I was in Dallas the year Nigel Mansell tried to push his car across the finish line. All I can say is that it was brutally hot, and the cars were way louder than they are now.
I was in Dallas the year Nigel Mansell tried to push his car across the finish line. All I can say is that it was brutally hot, and the cars were way louder than they are now.
100% agreed...Different time and Technologies.
They are all great during their time.
Bram
They are all great during their time.
Bram
I believe everybody save Ferrari has debuted their cars. We are almost to the testing week, followed by Bahrain!
I was talking with a neighbor last week, for the first time in my life I'm not excited about Ferrari, or its drivers, sadly. There isn't a champion driver on the team, nor do they look like they will contend for anything more than the middle of the pack. Reminds me of the early 80s.
I was talking with a neighbor last week, for the first time in my life I'm not excited about Ferrari, or its drivers, sadly. There isn't a champion driver on the team, nor do they look like they will contend for anything more than the middle of the pack. Reminds me of the early 80s.
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But not at the limit.
Ferrari will be stronger this season. Why? They were fined for cheating and as it was revealed recently, the fine was less fuel per race, so less power. Not this season anymore...
Please elaborate on this gold? Was the reduced fuel part of the double secret suspension.
Apparently that is true, they had to restrict fuel flow during the weekend, as part of the agreement between them and the FIA for cheating. Rumour has it, they have found away to extract more for the engine this year....yet to be seen.
Also, Honda/Rebull, will be using an upgraded 2022 engine spec in 2021 campaign, and Merc has made significant improvements to their Power units as well.
If all of this stuff is true, we'll see when testing starts next week....but the proof is on race weekend.
Bram
Also, Honda/Rebull, will be using an upgraded 2022 engine spec in 2021 campaign, and Merc has made significant improvements to their Power units as well.
If all of this stuff is true, we'll see when testing starts next week....but the proof is on race weekend.
Bram
Restricted fuel flow to the same as everybody else? Or less?
Dunno the details...this is what have been said by The British Press.
I get most of my F1 News from F1 Planet.
Bram
I get most of my F1 News from F1 Planet.
Bram
Because the formula 1 spec restricts both the amount of fuel for the whole race as well as the fuel rate at any given period, my understanding is Ferrari found a way to circumvent the letter of the law, as well as the spirit of the law, which is why the Ferrari power unit was the class of the field. When the FIA issued its rule clarification right before the USGP in 2019, the Ferrari power unit teams lost its power advantage.
Over the off season between 19 and 20, Ferrari and the FIA reached their confidential agreement. Because what Ferrari did has not been disclosed, it is somewhat difficult to say what the penalty is.
I don’t think the penalty has been reduced fuel allotment compared to the other 3 engine companies, but maybe so. I think it was a case of Ferrari’s engine was designed around the “loophole” they created, and when they got caught, it was too late to overcome the inherent limitation of their design. I believe the new engine has been developed compliant to the rules and is more competitive to the Merc and Honda power units.
The track times will tell. I bleed Italian Racing Red blood, but as my previous post, don’t have much love for the current team.
I agree with what you have concluded re Ferrari..... however we the Public will never know what they were doing to get the extra power. Some people talk about Ferrari injecting oil into the fuel flow as well to gain a power advantage. Just dunno
Testing will end all speculations by us the Fans. Let's see who did their homework.
Bram
Testing will end all speculations by us the Fans. Let's see who did their homework.
Bram
The oil mist was in the 17 or 18 timeframe, as I remember. The extra battery suspicion was around the same time too.
One thing about the current state of the regulations is the spec is so defined, only so much can be extracted from the power unit. Plus modeling and simulation and spec tires has revealed some of Ferrari’s transgressions.
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It was quite clear what F has been doing. Maybe we get more infos here in Europe than anywhere else.
Fact is that F cars have been very fast on the straights, even Merc was wondering. Helmut Marko from RB saw an advantage of 0.5-1 second only on the straight, the longer the higher. Maybe the Honda engine was not as strong back then and the difference would be smaller now.
Burning oil doesn't explain such a big difference.
A Honda engineer said some years ago that Merc and F have their advantage of knowing the grey zones of the rules for longer than Honda.
The main point of cheating was that F let the fuel flow fluctuate between 100% (max allowed) and x in a way the official fuel flow meter wasn't able to catch, it always saw 100%. The trick was possible because the fuel flow meter doesn't measure constantly but may be a few times per second. So F oszillated the fuel flow between 100% and x in the way that the fuel flow was 100% while the meter was reading. RB asked the FIA if it was ok to do so. The FIA said no, RB pointed at F. F got fined.
I've been reading that Mika Salo has been reveiling the fine recently and it was starting with less fuel for 2020 amoung other things.
Fact is that F cars have been very fast on the straights, even Merc was wondering. Helmut Marko from RB saw an advantage of 0.5-1 second only on the straight, the longer the higher. Maybe the Honda engine was not as strong back then and the difference would be smaller now.
Burning oil doesn't explain such a big difference.
A Honda engineer said some years ago that Merc and F have their advantage of knowing the grey zones of the rules for longer than Honda.
The main point of cheating was that F let the fuel flow fluctuate between 100% (max allowed) and x in a way the official fuel flow meter wasn't able to catch, it always saw 100%. The trick was possible because the fuel flow meter doesn't measure constantly but may be a few times per second. So F oszillated the fuel flow between 100% and x in the way that the fuel flow was 100% while the meter was reading. RB asked the FIA if it was ok to do so. The FIA said no, RB pointed at F. F got fined.
I've been reading that Mika Salo has been reveiling the fine recently and it was starting with less fuel for 2020 amoung other things.
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Yes. I think what Ferrari was doing was precisely that. I don't know if what Mika Salo means is Ferrari was allowed less fuel than the competition or merely less fuel than they had been (bending the rules, aka cheating) using?
Interesting...yes, we don't get the spicy details like the Folks in Europe. Thanks
Bram
Bram
Testing is underway. Let the season begin.
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1st test day, Verstappen well ahead with many laps and best time, MERC with technical problems (gearbox). MCL has always been fast in Bahrain.
Position Driver Team Time no. of laps type of tyres with the best time
1 Verstappen Red Bull 1:30.674 139 C3
2 Norris McLaren 1:30.889 46 C3
3 Ocon Alpine 1:31.146 129 C4
4 Stroll Aston Martin 1:31.782 46 C3T
5 Sainz Ferrari 1:31.919 57 C3
6 Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 1:31.945 68 C3
7 Ricciardo McLaren 1:32.203 45 C2
8 Gasly AlphaTauri 1:32.231 74 C3
9 Tsunoda AlphaTauri 1:32.727 37 C2
10 Hamilton Mercedes 1:32.912 42 C2
11 Leclerc Ferrari 1:33.242 59 C3
12 Räikkönen Alfa Romeo 1:33.320 63 C3
13 Vettel Aston Martin 1:33.742 51 C3T
14 Nissany Williams 1:34.789 83 C3
15 Mazepin Haas 1:34.798 70 C3
16 Schumacher Haas 1:36.127 15 C2
17 Bottas Mercedes 1:36.850 6 C2
Position Driver Team Time no. of laps type of tyres with the best time
1 Verstappen Red Bull 1:30.674 139 C3
2 Norris McLaren 1:30.889 46 C3
3 Ocon Alpine 1:31.146 129 C4
4 Stroll Aston Martin 1:31.782 46 C3T
5 Sainz Ferrari 1:31.919 57 C3
6 Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 1:31.945 68 C3
7 Ricciardo McLaren 1:32.203 45 C2
8 Gasly AlphaTauri 1:32.231 74 C3
9 Tsunoda AlphaTauri 1:32.727 37 C2
10 Hamilton Mercedes 1:32.912 42 C2
11 Leclerc Ferrari 1:33.242 59 C3
12 Räikkönen Alfa Romeo 1:33.320 63 C3
13 Vettel Aston Martin 1:33.742 51 C3T
14 Nissany Williams 1:34.789 83 C3
15 Mazepin Haas 1:34.798 70 C3
16 Schumacher Haas 1:36.127 15 C2
17 Bottas Mercedes 1:36.850 6 C2
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“Ricky is faster than anybody!” in a practice where no one is trying. Sigh. If headlines EVER conveyed honesty.
