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Girls Chinese Gymnastics Team Investigated?
- Thread starter Dtrigg
- Start date
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At this level of sport, even a tiny advantage can mean the difference between winning and losing. What if Ferrari's F1 engine was found to have cylinders that were over-bored by a few thousands of an inch? Or if McLaren was running its car light by 10 lbs?
These athletes spend countless hours every day for years on end to prepare at a huge cost to their families. Why should they accept cheating?
As you know, Americans did not win gold (or even medal) in scores and scores of sporting events in the recent Olympics. They are questioning one sport out of hundreds where the Chinese government's own documentation on the ages of a couple of the girls from a year or 2 ago indicated that they would be underage for these Olympics, and then that documentation quickly disappears when it is brought to light.
How is it bad sportsmanship to question these circumstances and request an investigation?
Also, Americans are also quick to call out cheating on our athletes - Barry Bonds, the NE Pats and Marion Jones to name a few.
Nope, if Ferrari have McLaren's design documentation, I doubt they will get a $100 million fine.
The point is, if they are knowingly under aged, they cheated. That's it, end of the story. So the question is, what to do now? Do you punish the girls or you punish the people who put them there?
i think you ban china as a whole, from the 2012 gymnastics segment. i dont think you could really punish the girls like banning them for life because it probably was somebody else that cut corners to get them in, or the govt, so this punishs everybody:smile:
I don't think that will work. But a good idea.
It is IOC's responsibility to have the age verified before the show, and they didn't do it right.
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As I said in my first post in this thread, this is a very politically charged topic, and it certainly has lived up to that.
I really want to believe that the Chinese played fair. Until the evidence from an independent investigation outside of American media is verified, I say innocent until proven guilty.
If evidence is presented and verified from an independent source to support the underage claims, I will be extremely disappointed in the Chinese team and government.
Many opinions have been presented here, and time will be the only thing to put this question to rest whatever the outcome may be.
I really want to believe that the Chinese played fair. Until the evidence from an independent investigation outside of American media is verified, I say innocent until proven guilty.
If evidence is presented and verified from an independent source to support the underage claims, I will be extremely disappointed in the Chinese team and government.
Many opinions have been presented here, and time will be the only thing to put this question to rest whatever the outcome may be.
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I agree - innocent until proved otherwise. But questioning whether cheating occurred isn't something that is "ugly American" as you seem to think. Michael Phellps was blood & urine tested over 30 times duing his 10 days at the Olympics. More than any other athlete. Why? Winning and winning convincingly always raises a question of cheating.
Lance Armstrong was tested over 1000 times in his career - never failed a drug test - and the Tour De France organizers are still convinced he doped.
Investigating cheating is part and parcel of every sport - it is not American, un-American, ugly American or otherwise. Cheaters have come from every country - and international sporting bodies have investigated cheating for years.
Whether or not punishments for cheating are handed out fairly and evenly, that is a separate question. But that issue in F1 just goes to show that cheating and complaining about cheating is a world-wide thing - in this case none of the parties (FIA, McLaren, Mosley, Ferrari, etc.) are American.
I'm just responding to Ben who seems to feel that filing a complaint about potential cheating is somehow a flaw that is unique to the American culture. It's part of global sport.
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I think I was a bit unclear in my original posts, but you can extrapolate from my subsequent posts. Basically, the Americans raised this issue because they lost and got silver. Had they won, this issue would have never been raised. Regardless of what the Chinese did or did not do, the American performance was marked with errors, and was not worthy of gold. Had their performance been impeccable and they had gotten silver, then things would be different. With the performance that the Americans gave, I think they should accept the silver and be happy with it. That is what I was referring to as losing gracefully, and the basis of the "ugly American" comments.
But, again, it is what it is, and only time will tell how this ends, and who did or did not cheat. Until then, everything presented (myself included) is opinion only.
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The Chinese team finished with a hair under 189 points, the US team just over 2 points lower, so the margin of victory was very small. Had the US team come in 4th or worse and still complained, that might have been "ugly american" since they would have nothing to gain by having the Chinese team santioned. Just like the guy to lost to Phellps by 1mm filed a protest and request for review, not the guy who came in 7th place. The person/team who lost has the responsibility to protest since it directly affects them.
If the age restriction isn't going to be inforced, perhaps the US team (and other team) would have brought a couple of different gymnasts. Again, we're talking about 2 points out of 189 - that is a tiny margin of victory.
I don't think you understand what it means to lose gracefully. It doesn't mean stick your head in the sand on ignore possible rules violations by your competitors. I think the US team was dignified in defeat - they didn't pout, cry or spoil the medal cerimony. The didn't fail to congratulate the Chinese team. They did everything right. Filing a protest within the sporting procedures is totally good sportmanship. Following the rules for the sport, following the rules for dealing with competition issues and honoring the final decision is good sportsmanship. The Cuban kicking the ref in the head for a what he thought was a bad call - that's bad sportsmanship. Storming off the medal platform - that's bad sportsmanship.
BTW, have you ever played organized competitive sports yourself - at the highschool, college or professional level?
Which silver medalist raised this issue? AFAIK not a single US gymnast has openly accused the Chinese of anything. The IOC asked for more documentation from the FIG because of all the controversy, but not because of any request from the US team or its members. The Karolyis may have been vocal, but again, no requests or demands have been made and I honestly expect their reaction wouldn't have differed if another country got the silver.
Despite what you may have read in the headlines, the controversy was pretty far along weeks before the olympics in the gymnastics world, and it wasn't only the Americans who were talking about it. Did it blow up because the US got silver? No. It blew up because the Chinese got gold.
The fact that China cheated doesn't really bother me as much as why they cheated. They were entirely too eager to use the olympics to prove to the world where they rank on the geo-political totem pole. That's not what the games are about.
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Last week she was on the Chinese Olympic Gymnastics team. This week, she's back to work on the assembly lines:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=547777
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=547777
BTW, next time you visit Vegas, go see the "O" show in the Belagio.
At the end, you will see some of the most flexible girls, and they are in their 20's. Some of the stuff they do is just unbelievable. And yes, they are Asian girls.
It is a VERY big deal to me.
And I have NO respect for anyone who who eat dog.
Would have a problem with someone eating human?
I lol at this. I have a feeling there are many people, including myself, who would not value the respect of someone very highly if their respect was based on what animals I chose to eat. Especially if it doesn't involve the vegan/vegetarian argument which I can wrap my head around.
If humans are hungry and have dogs to eat instead of cows because they are easier to breed and require much less grass and associated costs, then so be it. You'd have to be ultimate elitist to judge on those grounds. Your personal opinion can be whatever you choose, but you don't even see jews and muslims going bezerk over other people eating pork and it's in their damn bible.
That might seem a little antagonistic, but like Ben I've been around the block and it's a shame to see good people act like hypocrites or worse and not even know it. I'm sure you adore your dog and I've had sincere relationships with pets before too, but to judge someone harshly or put an animal on the same plane as a human is wrong.
can't beat that right there. can't beat it. it's just like an 05 nsx-r, it's not a fair race in the U.S. where type r's are not permitted.
The whole country feels sorry for itself? I'd hate to see your response to comments like that about the U.S. from foreigners. And I assure you, they are out there for the same reasons yours are here. I don't go in to messy details. There are some extremely proud, hard working, and successful chinese people. Many of which could live anywhere in the world but stay in China.
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I think it's sad that people have fallen for the media's distractions instead of focusing on the real issue at hand:
Georgia and the US's involvement in S. Ossetia.
Keep whining about something as petty as 1 year when people are being murdered over energy resources--yet again.
Pathetic...
You know they took advantage of the fact that the focus would be in Beijing right?
Georgia and the US's involvement in S. Ossetia.
Keep whining about something as petty as 1 year when people are being murdered over energy resources--yet again.
Pathetic...
You know they took advantage of the fact that the focus would be in Beijing right?
Not just "some Russian guy" but rather the wife of the US gymnastics coach and the owner of the school where many of them practice.
i havent heard a thing about the gymnasts on the news lately, as for the georgia cituation, this is a PERFECT example of why nations need to be energy independant, russia has europe and the united states BENT OVER right now and they can choose to shove it up either of our bums whenever they decide by cutting off the majority of europes energy or by giving nuclear info to iran.
That was for the 2000 Olympics! They move about as fast as the F1 sanctioning committee. 
Not really. There's a reason most of the female Olympic gymnasts are so young these days - to a point, the younger they are, the more capable they are.
From wikipedia:
According to many scientific and medical studies, as well as reports from ex-gymnasts, younger gymnasts may have psychological or physical advantages in elite gymnastics competition.
Psychologically, younger gymnasts may be more fearless, and have less visceral appreciation for the potential for injury. They are therefore more likely to perform more dangerous, and more highly scored, routines with confidence and steadiness.[9] “Psychologically, I think they worry less,” former Olympic medallist Nellie Kim told the New York Times. [31] Daniela Silivas, in her interview, commented, "You should know that I competed better at the age of 13 than at 17. I felt much better, physical (sic) and mentally."[22]
Physically, younger gymnasts, particularly those who have not yet gone through puberty, tend to be lighter, smaller, more pliable and flexible, which aids them in performing more complex skills and gives them a better strength-to-weight ratio. When a gymnast hits puberty, growth spurts and weight gain may affect her centre of gravity, causing mental and physical stress as she must adjust, and in some cases relearn, her moves to compensate.[9][32] Smaller athletes have generally excelled in the more challenging acrobatic elements required by the evolving Code of Points after the 1960s.[13] In addition, older gymnasts may be more prone to certain types of injuries caused by overuse of bones and muscles; younger gymnasts are less likely to have such problems, or more likely to be able to work through pain while injured.[9][13]
She told me she was 18 !!
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