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So really... What are your choices in the NC1 price range?

NbyNW said:
If I get something out of warranty I’ll do most of the maintenance - I have a fully outfitted garage with a lift. Yet sadly I’ve been crazy busy so taking the NSX to a local dealer for its yearly oil change is really easy and convenient.

It’s been forever since seeing it but there’s a beautiful blue 12C at our local cars and coffee (Hunt Valley Horsepower). Damn pretty car. See if I can find a pic.


f9c70276-d0a6-4525-9578-c0bb0d1abbbd
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I've seen you there. :smile:
I heard that it's not happening right now, is that right?

nsx2.jpg
 
I appreciate the correction! Never heard of them. Part of it is that McLaren of Philly was making a full-court press to advertise in the Cleveland area (or as much as an exotic dealer can press, anyway, LOL) some years ago, and that seems to be where people I know who buy McLarens around here go.

NSXplosive said:
There's a McLaren dealer in Detroit, too, which would be a bit closer.

https://www.exoticmotorcarsofmichigan.com/new-inventory-mclaren.htm


But, yes, I would still prefer to go to the Acura dealer that's three miles away--assuming they actually know what to do with an NC1 (not many do, apparently).
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gleibig said:
I've seen you there. :smile:
I heard that it's not happening right now, is that right?

View attachment 169138
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Nice... I've seen your silver NA1 and talked to the guy who has the red NA1.

As of March 12, 50% capacity. No idea how they will control that, it gets really busy. Huge diversity of cars. I'll give it some time before I head over - let this vaccine fully kick in!

Edit... Read more on their site, it's not happening, with no way to control the crowds still postponed until further notice.
 
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The list of cost-comparable contenders is even more limited if one takes used cars out of the mix, right? The only other car I felt was even worth a close-ish look was the Aston, but they don't even publish pricing online and others warned me that the base price doesn't even include wheels--literally everything you check on the online configurator adds to the price. So to this day I still have no idea what the sticker price would have been--$200k? $250k?
 
DJ Iceman said:
The list of cost-comparable contenders is even more limited if one takes used cars out of the mix, right? The only other car I felt was even worth a close-ish look was the Aston, but they don't even publish pricing online and others warned me that the base price doesn't even include wheels--literally everything you check on the online configurator adds to the price. So to this day I still have no idea what the sticker price would have been--$200k? $250k?
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I believe new vantage V8 models are around $170K +
 
drmanny3 said:
No on a fuel cell/electric car. The technology is not here yet. All the fuel cell cars that are around are electric cars. The fuel cell produces the electricity and the electric motors the propulsion.

Honda could reduce the weight and improve the front electric motors. Increasing the horsepower is not their first priority. Refinement is what they are likely to pursue. so some changes in the front and possibly the rear. The interior could also get improvements. I know all want another 150 hp. I just don’t see that happening. It is good to dream.....
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The Fuel Cell/Electric is just my pure speculation. Honda has pushed in a lot of their cards on this technology in terms of spend and engineering effort. It just seemed natural to me to use the NSX as the lead technology demonstrator before the rest of the product line picks it up. The main issue with electrics remains the range/charge cycle. For example, my neighbor traded in his Panamera GTS for a Tesla 3 Dual Motor. He was over in my garage oogling my S Zero and complained that the Tesla was good, but charging is a problem on long trips. Even when they go up to their house in Winter Park for the weekend, the trip drains the battery and then they have to wait hours before they can drive anywhere else up there because the Tesla needs to charge back up. There appear to be a few solutions to this problem in the various stages of development:

1. Hybrid - the most developed solution, but not ideal because it keeps the dirty ICE system.
2. Faster charging/better batteries - I keep hearing it's right around the corner, but how long is it going to really be before you can charge your car in the same amount of time it takes to fill your gas tank?? Color me skeptical.
3 Fuel cells - They charge the batteries (or mega capacitors) as you drive and, if we derive hydrogen from water instead of natural gas, it's truly a carbon-free solution with unlimited range. Also, the fill time is about the same as gasoline and range performance is similar (4kg of H = 4 gallons of gasoline).

Tesla solved the performance issue from electric, but they are still struggling with range and charge. Perhaps fuel cells can solve that side of the equation (Elon poo poos it, but that's because it is a competitive threat to his product). Honda really believes in this technology and the NSX could be a great place to showcase what it can do.
 
Fuel cells aren't efficient enough yet. Both ends of the process (generating hydrogen, and getting energy out of it with a fuel cell) are inefficient. About 30% of the energy put into making the hydrogen ends up powering the car and 70% is wasted. Research may improve that but there isn't much on the horizon for now. On top of that, add the transport costs to get hydrogen to the filling stations (transporting electricity through wires is a lot cheaper).
 
Honcho said:
The Fuel Cell/Electric is just my pure speculation. Honda has pushed in a lot of their cards on this technology in terms of spend and engineering effort. It just seemed natural to me to use the NSX as the lead technology demonstrator before the rest of the product line picks it up. The main issue with electrics remains the range/charge cycle. For example, my neighbor traded in his Panamera GTS for a Tesla 3 Dual Motor. He was over in my garage oogling my S Zero and complained that the Tesla was good, but charging is a problem on long trips. Even when they go up to their house in Winter Park for the weekend, the trip drains the battery and then they have to wait hours before they can drive anywhere else up there because the Tesla needs to charge back up. There appear to be a few solutions to this problem in the various stages of development:

1. Hybrid - the most developed solution, but not ideal because it keeps the dirty ICE system.
2. Faster charging/better batteries - I keep hearing it's right around the corner, but how long is it going to really be before you can charge your car in the same amount of time it takes to fill your gas tank?? Color me skeptical.
3 Fuel cells - They charge the batteries (or mega capacitors) as you drive and, if we derive hydrogen from water instead of natural gas, it's truly a carbon-free solution with unlimited range. Also, the fill time is about the same as gasoline and range performance is similar (4kg of H = 4 gallons of gasoline).

Tesla solved the performance issue from electric, but they are still struggling with range and charge. Perhaps fuel cells can solve that side of the equation (Elon poo poos it, but that's because it is a competitive threat to his product). Honda really believes in this technology and the NSX could be a great place to showcase what it can do.
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I'm a huge fan of EVs. Owned a few as DD's since 2013 and forever will I reckon. It's just a totally different driving experience. With that said, i'm also of the opinion that Fuel Cell/Hydrogen technology is a dead cat. Japan had all their hopes on it (and still do to some extent) as it's a great way to solve unique EV problems in a highly dense population like theirs. It's too bad the advantages don't translate to N.America. Heck, even building an EV infrastructure has been an uphill battle here. It took literally an act of congress (VW gate, EV incentives, etc) and the genius of our time whether you like him or not (Elon Musk) to make a dent. I just don't see all that weight and inefficiencies working out too well in the NC1, but damn.. I hope one day they figure it out!!!

I think the biggest bang for the buck on the NC1 is to replace that 1kWh Lithium Ion battery (fyi that's 3x smaller than the average hybrid Prius, 7x smaller than what's in the new McLaren Artura) to something that is quicker at discharging/charging and a higher output per pound. As of now, those are capacitors. I can't recall which supercar hybrid uses those caps right now. Edit: The new Sian Lambo hybrid uses supercapacitors. Don't know what the cost/value proposition is for this kind of battery though. If it's uber expensive.. well then.. ignore me!

The advanced technology in the new Lamborghini Sián FKP 37 is designed to fire up incredibly strong emotions. One of its most-innovative features is the hybrid system, aimed at providing power and lightness at the same time. The lightweight mild-hybrid architecture has a lithium-ion supercapacitor, which is three times more powerful than a battery of the same weight. It's a low voltage 48V system which enables current peaks of up to 600A to be reached with a power density of 2,400W/kg.
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RYU said:
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Most of them would be out of that 7yr period anyway. I was thinking more along the lines of owners having had ample time to sort out their cars with a 7yr warranty behind them but that's a moot point. 12C's had this happen with most owners experience early problems with transmission and LCD display issues. Assumably it would be more wise to buy a used 12C with relatively high miles but a lengthy warranty period with repair records. I'd rather buy that example than a low miles "no issues" mclaren.

That reminds me... I need to read up on if Honda decided to add an extended warranty program for the NC1
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Yes on the extended warranty for the NC1. You can get I believe up to 7 more years after the first 4 year bumper to bumper. The Hybrid has its own 7 year warranty. On the 12C from MC check out Hoovies YouTube story on his car. High mileage will not save you. His car ended up taking two engines and two trans plus other stuff.
 
drmanny3 said:
Yes on the extended warranty for the NC1. You can get I believe up to 7 more years after the first 4 year bumper to bumper. The Hybrid has its own 7 year warranty. On the 12C from MC check out Hoovies YouTube story on his car. High mileage will not save you. His car ended up taking two engines and two trans plus other stuff.
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yep, well aware of that video. All of his fell under warranty, but i'm also plugged in to several other owners who actually use/track their 12Cs. So far it's not as bad as the internets would have you believe but it's still a buyer beware situation. It certainly won't be as reliable as the NC1 seems to be.

Good to know about the extended warranty options on the NC1
 
Do you care about the depreciation/used car value, and do they ever comes into your decision making criteria?
McLaren's depreciation curve is much steeper than Ferraris or Lamborghinis... To me, it presents an attractive value per performance.

Also, I have driven various Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghinis... and McLarens are the only ones that gives the similar panoramic view of the road as the Gen 1 NSX. To me, that's really important because it gives me a very different driving experience.... feeling like you are sitting at the tip of the arrow. I don't get that in Ferraris or Lamborghinis even though both are low slung. I definitely don't get that in any Porsches.
 
TigerNSX said:
Do you care about the depreciation/used car value, and do they ever comes into your decision making criteria?
McLaren's depreciation curve is much steeper than Ferraris or Lamborghinis... To me, it presents an attractive value per performance.

Also, I have driven various Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghinis... and McLarens are the only ones that gives the similar panoramic view of the road as the Gen 1 NSX. To me, that's really important because it gives me a very different driving experience.... feeling like you are sitting at the tip of the arrow. I don't get that in Ferraris or Lamborghinis even though both are low slung. I definitely don't get that in any Porsches.
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+1

The NC1 is the really the purchase I struggle with the most. I might get some hate for this and it's not my intent, but it's not really great at any one thing, which, in whole, can be a good thing I suppose. It's probably best being a daily driver supercar which I just don't need personally. As a long trip GT car, my wife would complain bigtime about the lack of cargo space for example. It's reliable, the price is ok (but would push me over the edge if it was cheaper as i'd swap out most of that interior). It's ok at the track, and the design is handsome though slightly porky in the weight dept.

Is there a NC1 weight savings thread somewhere? Have folks tried to lighten her up? I reckon bucket seats alone could save 50-100lbs.
 
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RYU said:
I might get some hate for this and it's not my intent, but it's not really great at any one thing, which, in whole, can be a good thing I suppose.
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You shouldn't get any hate for it--we're just talking about a car, after all. And every one of us has different needs, wants, likes/dislikes, etc. :smile:

I would just re-word what you said, though. I think the NC1 is really great at EVERYTHING, just not stupendously class-leading at any one thing. Which is probably why I like it so much--in order to get stupendously class-leading at any one thing, other things would have to be compromised (performance, comfort, usability, reliability, price, etc.). I'm perfectly fine that another car can do 0-60 a few tenths of a second faster, another car can store two golf bags in the trunk instead of one, or whatever. The NC1 is sufficient for me in all regards, so became the obvious choice for me.
 
DJ Iceman said:
You shouldn't get any hate for it--we're just talking about a car, after all. And every one of us has different needs, wants, likes/dislikes, etc. :smile:

I would just re-word what you said, though. I think the NC1 is really great at EVERYTHING, just not stupendously class-leading at any one thing. Which is probably why I like it so much--in order to get stupendously class-leading at any one thing, other things would have to be compromised (performance, comfort, usability, reliability, price, etc.). I'm perfectly fine that another car can do 0-60 a few tenths of a second faster, another car can store two golf bags in the trunk instead of one, or whatever. The NC1 is sufficient for me in all regards, so became the obvious choice for me.
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can't disagree!
 
Honcho said:
MMC = Mid-Model Change

Most car companies refresh the model about halfway through its design cycle. Honda pretty reliably sticks to about a 3-5 year MMC schedule, depending on the life cycle of that model generation. For the NC1, 2017+5 = 2022. :D
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FWIW:

MMC stands for: マイナーモデルチェンジ　(Minor Model Change)
FMC stands for: フルモデルチェンジ (Full Model Change)

These are acronyms used by the Japanese automotive industry.
 
[MENTION=37092]NSXplosive[/MENTION] fascinating! Thanks for sharing! And it confirmed at a quick pass that a Vantage coupe outfitted well pushes well past $200k. I'm guessing that a convertible loaded up would indeed be close to $250k.
 
FWIW.....If you have a Porsche Vin#, here is a free, good quality option decoder along w/MSRP (new & used)

https://vinanalytics.com/
 
RYU said:
I spent 5 mins scrolling thru the Porsche GT3 new configurator. I got up to $183k on options I'd want. Didn't even include carbon brakes.
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That's one of my big problems with Porsche. I mean, it's great that they offer such a staggering spectrum of options, but I remember 20 years ago when I was comparing an M Roadster, an SLK, and a Boxster S. I merrily went on my way clicking the options I'd want on the Boxster and about fell out of my chair when the MSRP was over $100k. Let's just say the decision after that came down to the M Roadster vs. the SLK (each of which were in the $40k-$50k range fully loaded).
 
Porsche wouldn't have so many options if a decent sized subset of their customers didn't want them

They let you build your car, for a price

It's more like Honda was too dense to get this concept into their heads when they did the Gen 2 NSX

I will be interested to see how the MC 20 does in the market, a tick higher price point than what we are talking here, but offers a CF tub, lambo doors, Italian connections
 
Agree will be interested to see how well the new(old) player in the space does ..it has the brand cache..
 

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